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Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

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81–90 of 166 posts

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#81
post #63

Having a "dead weight" has it's advantages - passive, no bacteria, mold, flex, resistant to shock etc. Pretty sure billion dollar companies like Siemens have thought this through and came to the conclusion that concrete is best. The negative externality of a disappointed customer seems to be larger (medium term) than the damage being done by producing the concrete.

then fill it with concrete..

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#83

Water has a density of 1000kg/m3 whereas concrete has a density of 2300kg/m3. Your washing machine will end up a bit bigger if you want the same counterweight. Some washers even have cast iron counterweights (7000kg/m3).

The current concrete counterweights don't take up the full extra volume available in machines so switching to a less dense counterweight doesn't mean they'll have to increase the size of the machine overall.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#84

"The plastic counterweight (right) could save around 45,000 tonnes of CO2 each year in the UK..." How about we just make machines that last instead of having to be replaced all the time.

Because no-one wants to pay for that. Washing machines which last exist, but they're expensive. They use sturdier, more easily replaceable parts, higher quality motors and control systems, etc. And sometimes _iron_ counterweights (even more CO2 there). You can get a washing machine that might last perhaps 5-10 years for about 200-300 euro... or a Miele one that'll probably last over 20 years for 1000 euro. It's a har…

> You can get a washing machine that might last perhaps 5-10 years for about 200-300 euro... or a Miele one that'll probably last over 20 years for 1000 euro. It's a hard sell for most people.

The other side of the coin is that the Miele will possibly do a better job than the cheaper model.

I used to buy $100 vacuum cleaners and just replace them when they break, which they usually did after a year or two. The last time one died on me I decided that I had had enough and bought a Miele. Not only will it last longer (the 10 year warranty guarantees that it will), it also does a much better job.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#85

Water has a density of 1000kg/m3 whereas concrete has a density of 2300kg/m3. Your washing machine will end up a bit bigger if you want the same counterweight. Some washers even have cast iron counterweights (7000kg/m3).

what about sand? comes close to concrete but is easily (re)fillable.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Water-filled road blocks are not new: https://www.trafficsafetystore.com/water-filled-barriers

Ah fair enough. It's just that this summer lots of roadwork around used very large concrete mdules.

A lot of roadworks takes place well away from a convenient source of water like a hydrant so the water has to be transported out there for the water filled barriers. So there's some savings since you don't have to take the whole weight back to storage and the distance the bulk of the weight travels is probably lower.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#87
post #65
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horizontal axis is better because it tumbles the clothes through a small puddle of water at the bottom. Vertical axis requires lots of energy to agitate, and a lot of water.

My vertical axis washer uses probably as much as a horizontal one. The trick is in an improved impeller to properly agitate a full load in what's merely a puddle of water. Also the cycle starts with a pump spraying (recycled) water back into the basket so that all the clothes reach the same wetness therefore can have the same density and get impelled uniformly.

I always felt like vertical washers had to be harder on clothes. Horizontal washers are just flopping clothes around so the worst wear is probably on buttons. Vertical washers are scraping and stretching the fabric itself when they agitate. Especially if there's not much water to lubricate, seems like it would be tough on the fabric.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#88
post #63

Having a "dead weight" has it's advantages - passive, no bacteria, mold, flex, resistant to shock etc. Pretty sure billion dollar companies like Siemens have thought this through and came to the conclusion that concrete is best. The negative externality of a disappointed customer seems to be larger (medium term) than the damage being done by producing the concrete.

Manufacturers really don't care too much about shipping costs (and the secondary CO2 burden) once the machine leaves their loading dock. Their concern is to make the machine as cheaply as possible for the features involved and maximize the margin.

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#89
post #74
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most probably the new washing machine will have a microprocessor anyway being IoT ;), so it's just the cost of sensors and servos that adds to the BOM. As a side note, and JFYI, a celebration of connected washers (by IBM): https://www.ibm.com/blogs/internet-of-things/washing-iot-sol... Particularly: >New business transformation opportunities can be explored whereby the washing machine itself can be turned into a serv…

Aah, this the devious "product as a service" model, at least here they properly call it leasing, unlike the companies that adopted Keurigification

I am not sure to understand, actually they (I mean the cited IBM article authors) don't call it "leasing", they explicitly promote the idea of "pay per wash".

Re: Concrete-free washing machines are lighter to transport, just as good in a spin

#90
post #66
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My current LG washer spins the drum at startup to detect balance and load, so it probably accomplishes some active balancing by modulating the drive motor during the spin cycle. This one still has a regular concrete balance though.

Same, but I figured it was doing something more like: int speed = 0, retries = 0; for (int time = 0; time TOO_MUCH_SHAKING) { time = speed = 0; if (++retries > MAX_RETRIES) break; } set_spin_speed(speed); sleep(1); }

While it's possible that it is this simple, spinning the drum back and forth to detect load shows a significantly more advanced understanding of control theory.
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