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Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

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21–30 of 396 posts

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#21
Security comes last, if at all.

This was back when I was a junior dev, but I had to demo how an unprivileged user could delete every user in our system before I could work fix that section of code without getting fussed at for trying to discuss something unimportant. Even then the immediate response was, well we have a nightly backup so we're fine.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#22

I've never met a manager that wouldn't rather pay four average people $100/hr to solve a problem that one smart person could solve in half the time for $400/hr. There seems to be some sort of quasi-religious belief in the fundamental averageness of humans; consequently the difference between developer salaries at any company varies by maybe 50%, whereas the productivity varies by at least a full order of magnitude. U…

We already do that all over. It's called consulting. The outcome isn't higher quality or better work, just capture of perceived value. The super productive developer has a risk/reward ratio. When you get a little older, stability has a value of its own.

Isn't the biggest value that you don't have long-term full-time employee and benefits to pay out.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#23
post #14

I've never met a manager that wouldn't rather pay four average people $100/hr to solve a problem that one smart person could solve in half the time for $400/hr. There seems to be some sort of quasi-religious belief in the fundamental averageness of humans; consequently the difference between developer salaries at any company varies by maybe 50%, whereas the productivity varies by at least a full order of magnitude. U…

> I sometimes wonder what would happen if some company simply offered to pay 3X the market rate and mercilessly filter the results. I've always heard this is the Netflix model. > difference between developer salaries at any company varies by maybe 50%, whereas the productivity varies by at least a full order of magnitude. I like your thought process but do you really believe this is possible? There are few fields whe…

What do you mean even in sports? What metric are you using to compare on athlete to another? Obviously one golfer won't be able to hit the ball 10x as far or sink the ball in 10x fewer strokes than another. Obviously a gold medal sprinter won't run 10x as fast as the an amateur. But they very well may be better than 10x as many others and that small difference in speed is what makes the difference between winning and losing. The claim the parent poster is making is different, because programming is much different than sports in that he really is claiming that one programmer can create 10x as much valuable work than another. Very different from saying that one programming contest competitor is 10x better than the average programming contest contestant.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#25
post #5

Promoting technical people with no management experience into management jobs, without providing them with any training or guidance. (Happened to me.) Writing code and managing people require very different sets of skills, and just because you're good at the former doesn't necessarily mean you'll be any good at the latter (or that you'll enjoy doing it). (Similar problems can happen when a bunch of people with no man…

What kind of things did you do to self educate, given you lacked formal training or guidance?

I read lots of books about management, I tried to emulate what managers who I thought were competent were doing, and I made lots of mistakes and tried to learn from them.

There were some mistakes that I was never able to recover from, like being too friendly with the people who reported to me - that makes you really dread the prospect of having to lay someone off, makes it hard to give difficult feedback, etc.

Eventually, after being a manager for several years, I decided to go back to being a developer, and now I'm much happier.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#26
Something I see a ton is management by crisis - 20 people from an organization could tell certain managers that there will be performance issues in 3 months if we don't pay down tech debt, but nothing actually sinks in until there is a performance crisis in 3 months.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#27
Want to jump ahead a few years from Mythical Man-Month? Let me recommend Peopleware by Tom DeMarco and Tim Lister.[2] It's painful that we haven't crawled far out of the 80s practices.

The first chapter says: "The major problems of our work are not so much technological as sociological in nature." Sorry Google Memo Dude. DeMarco and Lister called it in the 80s.

Speaking of DeMarco, he also wrote a book about controlling software projects before Peopleware. Then in 2009 he denounced it. [1]

    To  understand  control’s  real  role,  you  need  to 
    distinguish between two drastically different kinds 
    of projects:

    * Project A will eventually cost about a million 
      dollars and produce value of around $1.1 million.
    * Project B  will eventually cost  about a million 
      dollars and produce value of more than $50 million.

    What’s immediately apparent is that control is really 
    important for Project A but almost not at all important
    for Project B. This leads us to the odd conclusion that
    strict control is something that matters a lot on 
    relatively useless projects and much less on useful 
    projects. It suggests that the more you focus on control,
    the more likely you’re working on a project that’s
    striving to deliver something of relatively minor value.
I always think about that when I'm doing a Sprint Review.

[1]: https://www.computer.org/cms/Computer.org/ComputingNow/homep... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopleware:_Productive_Project...

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#28

I've never met a manager that wouldn't rather pay four average people $100/hr to solve a problem that one smart person could solve in half the time for $400/hr. There seems to be some sort of quasi-religious belief in the fundamental averageness of humans; consequently the difference between developer salaries at any company varies by maybe 50%, whereas the productivity varies by at least a full order of magnitude. U…

Interesting to compare your response with the current top comment, particularly the 4th and 5th bulletpoints:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15033386

Seems like management is damned if they do and damned if they don't. If they reward high performers in proportion to the value they generate, they kill the culture of the company. If they reward everyone fairly & equally, then all the high performers quit.

Full employment theorem for entrepreneurs, I guess. If management is rational, they'll never put the whims of one high-performing employee over the culture of the company as a whole. If that employee is rational, he'll quit and take his work directly to the market. This creates a fresh stream of new startups, each of which either has to be bought back for their true market value, or else becomes the new hot company that hires the masses and hemorrhages its high performers.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#29
The worst mistake I've seen management make over 20 years of software development is not listening to the technical people.

Estimates get shortened. Technical decisions are overruled for business or political reason. Warnings about undesirable outcomes are ignored. Sheer impossibility deemed surmountable.

I feel this is the worst mistake by management because the technical people are the ones who suffer for it. Overtime, inferior software, frustration, technical debt, lack of quality, are all things management doesn't really care about because they can always just push people harder to get what they want.

Re: Ask HN: What mistakes in your experience does management keep making?

#30

There are some very common ones; * Building a one more generation of product than the market supports (so you build a new version when the market has moved on to something new). * Rewarding productivity over quality. * Managing to a second order effect. For example when Nestle' bought Dryers they managed to 'most profit per gallon' which rewarded people who substituted inferior (and cheaper) components, that lead to…

Why is overall revenue a better metric than unit profit? Wouldn't overall profit be the first-order effect?
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