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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#421

Post by _euac »

jacquesm wrote: post #393
davidreiss wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and to be an unwilling vehicle for the Neo Nazi movement is something that no company should want to aspire to. Does that also apply to pornography? What about atheism? What about lgbt content? The concerted effort by the pro-censorship crowd to exploit nazis to promote censorship is rather worrying.

The concerted effort to equate Neo Nazis to pornographers, atheists and lgbt people is rather worrying as well. If you can't see the difference between those groups then the problem is on your end. Hint: Neo Nazis wish to return to the good old days of 1939 or so where Jews and people of color are either dead, outcast, deported, enslaved or stuck in camps while white men rule the land as is their god given right. So…

Yeah, this whole "Nazi flags == rainbow flag" or "this is a slippery slope" thing the right-wing has been pushing is ludicrous. There's nothing controversial in saying that Nazi ideals are really fucked up. Porn and LGBT people don't kill other people, Nazis did and would do again if given the chance.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#422

Post by mehwoot »

_euac wrote: post #417
davidreiss wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and to be an unwilling vehicle for the Neo Nazi movement is something that no company should want to aspire to. Does that also apply to pornography? What about atheism? What about lgbt content? The concerted effort by the pro-censorship crowd to exploit nazis to promote censorship is rather worrying.

> The concerted effort by the pro-censorship crowd to exploit nazis to promote censorship is rather worrying. This, right here, is a straw-man that I've seen repeated countless times. I am not pro-censorship, but I'm sure as hell not for forcing companies to provide services to Nazis and other scum. There's a huge, gaping difference between those two things and I'd appreciate it if you stopped conflating them.

There's a huge, gaping difference between those two things

Is there? If you need companies to effectively publish on the internet, then those companies refusing to work with you means you can't publish. Do you consider that censorship?

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#423

Post by jacquesm »

backpropaganda wrote: post #409
jacquesm wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concerted effort to equate Neo Nazis to pornographers, atheists and lgbt people is rather worrying as well. If you can't see the difference between those groups then the problem is on your end. Hint: Neo Nazis wish to return to the good old days of 1939 or so where Jews and people of color are either dead, outcast, deported, enslaved or stuck in camps while white men rule the land as is their god given right. So…

What about white nationalists or separatists? People who want a white ethnic country with restricted immigration. Are they outside our moral tolerance as well? AFAIU, a lot of these so-called Nazis are just white nationalists who want to assert their superiority, but not in a Hitler way.

> What about white nationalists or separatists? People who want a white ethnic country with restricted immigration.

They have the vote, don't they?

> Are they outside our moral tolerance as well?

Well, they are outside mine so if that's how you roll you won't find yourself invited into my house because you'd be incompatible with whoever else I might invite and you'd be incompatible with me.

> AFAIU, a lot of these so-called Nazis are just white nationalists who want to assert their superiority, but not in a Hitler way.

Yes, all we want is a nice white place for ourselves, and the temporary problem of how to get rid of those who we find objectionable we'll leave to our friends over there.

Note that the one group needs the others if they are to get their way and so they openly support each other and to all intents and purposes might as well be seen as one group by outsiders.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#424

Post by dogecoinbase »

andrewflnr wrote: post #331
dogecoinbase wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally a fallacy. You just named a fallacy as an attempt at argument.

Slippery slope is not a fallacy. It's a real phenomenon in certain cases. It does, however, have to be proved relevant to any given question, which is GP's real offense.

Yes, this is why it's a fallacy. By the time you've justified a slippery slope argument, you have made an independent argument for your point that has nothing to do with the idea of a "slippery slope". Calling something a slippery slope without an additional complete argument is the slippery slope fallacy.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#425

Post by jacquesm »

_euac wrote: post #421
jacquesm wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concerted effort to equate Neo Nazis to pornographers, atheists and lgbt people is rather worrying as well. If you can't see the difference between those groups then the problem is on your end. Hint: Neo Nazis wish to return to the good old days of 1939 or so where Jews and people of color are either dead, outcast, deported, enslaved or stuck in camps while white men rule the land as is their god given right. So…

Yeah, this whole "Nazi flags == rainbow flag" or "this is a slippery slope" thing the right-wing has been pushing is ludicrous. There's nothing controversial in saying that Nazi ideals are really fucked up . Porn and LGBT people don't kill other people, Nazis did and would do again if given the chance.

> Nazis did and would do again if given the chance.

They were just given the chance and did it. And according to their chatter they are gearing up for more.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#426

Post by ibevanned »

jay-saint wrote: post #192
yahna wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gee, I hope my site doesn't happen to anger him in some way.

There are few things worse than nazis. Just make sure your content is better than fascist propaganda and you should be good.

Yeah, like Communists right?

Stalin and Mao killed far more people then the Nazis, but I'll be down voted and banned because my opinion doesn't fit your ideological narrative.

This is assuming I even am allowed to post my view at all.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#427

Post by [deleted] »

zzzcpan wrote: post #218
tuna-piano wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre. He tries to have it both ways. He says "no one should have that power", but then says he did it literally earlier that day. He says CloudFlare isn't changing their "content-neutral" policy... but clearly they did change that policy. I have many reasons to oppose nazis, including incredibly personal ones. That said, I think crossing this content line for an infrastructure company is a big deal, and I…

Cloudflare is pushing its pretend free speech PR too hard. But make no mistake, it's still just PR, no company like that actually cares about free speech.

[deleted]

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#428

Post by jacquesm »

mehwoot wrote: post #422
_euac wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The concerted effort by the pro-censorship crowd to exploit nazis to promote censorship is rather worrying. This, right here, is a straw-man that I've seen repeated countless times. I am not pro-censorship, but I'm sure as hell not for forcing companies to provide services to Nazis and other scum. There's a huge, gaping difference between those two things and I'd appreciate it if you stopped conflating them.

There's a huge, gaping difference between those two things Is there? If you need companies to effectively publish on the internet, then those companies refusing to work with you means you can't publish. Do you consider that censorship?

> Is there?

I'm kind of surprised that would need re-iterating but yes, there is.

> If you need companies to effectively publish on the internet, then those companies refusing to work with you means you can't publish.

No, you can go buy a printer and write your little screed in notepad and print it out, then distribute your copies. Who every equated the internet with all venues of publishing?

> Do you consider that censorship?

Absolutely not. Censorship is when the state muzzles your ability to communicate, see the former eastblock and present day China and North Korea. That's censorship. This is companies deciding who to do business with.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#429

Post by yzmtf2008 »

jquery wrote: post #264
tootie wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one who supports Trump or Daily Stormer are likely not applying nearly as much inductive reasoning to their decisions as you are in this comment.

According to Blind, at least 40% of Silicon Valley workers support what Trump said regarding this incident. Probably less than 1% support the ideas of Neo-nazis or the Daily Stormer. You're making a false assumption and dehumanizing those who disagree with you.

> According to Blind

Do you see the problem with that sampling method? Blind is a pretty self-selecting audience, and I wouldn't say it represents the average tech industry at all.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#430

Post by davemp »

Barrin92 wrote: post #373
davemp wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's sort of disconcerting to admit this but recent events have me reevaluating the utility of unvarnished free speech as a societal value. Very disconcerting that you and so many other people feel this way. Free speech and competition of ideas is an essential part of our society. To deny free speech is to oppress. > no recourse to the psychological and structural damage they do to our society through their dishone…

>Open, civil, and logical debate of ideas is your recourse. If your ideas cannot win over the majority, maybe you (and possibly that society) deserve to lose Why should anybody deserve to lose because they fall victim to the masses? How is that in any way justifiable? This is tyranny of the masses, nothing else. And I would suggest to you that there are numerous countries on this planet that have not elevated free sp…

> This is tyranny of the masses, nothing else.

It is called democracy. It has brought more success/improved living conditions than any other model (tyranny of the elite) in history.

> And I would suggest to you that there are numerous countries on this planet that have not elevated free speech to the status of religion, yet guarantee civil rights for much longer than the United States do.

Let's see some citations. Who are these beacons of civil rights? China? India? Colonel England?

It is also worth noting that free speech is considered a human right by the UN. [1]

> And how does this constitute an argument?

It's a circular arguement. I oppress you, you oppress me, we are all one big opressive family.

[1]: https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/043/8...

> Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.

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