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Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

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Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#281

Post by saint_fiasco »

rusk wrote: post #249
Iknown0thing wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as like the new way of distributing wealth in this manner, some of the foundations Christians fundamentals worry me. For example - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/how-we-work/quick-links/gran... I tried looking for similar grants to religious services organizations from other religions, but my search came up empty. Very happy to stand corrected on this.

Just cross-referencing jk2323 here who makes an interesting point in this regard [0] *He should improve contraception instead* You're pointing out that a lot of these organisations are based on a Catholic ethos. Given the church's outspoken position on contraception, could the pointed nature of these donations actually be doing some harm? Given 1000 donors donating a million vs 1 donor with a billion (as somebody els…

When donors with different biases donate to causes with different political implications, they don't always average out. Sometimes they cancel out.

For example political campaign donations are obviously zero-sum, as is lobbying for mutually exclusive well-intentioned causes.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#282

Post by Retric »

RhysU wrote: post #239
Retric wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to 'take it back.' But, I feel donations should not be tax deductible. Why should I subsidize anything someone feels is worth donating for?

How is not taking his money subsidizing him? Tax credits would be subsidizing him.

Tax breaks for specific activities are by dentition a subsidy by lowering costs.

If people with blue eyes suddenly did not have to pay taxes then that would be a massive subsidy. If you get a pay check and the taxes are already taken it it's just as much 'your money' as if you got the full paycheck then had to pay taxes after the fact. The point is more money goes out of your paycheck because the US government subsidizes other and often very rich people.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#283

Post by [deleted] »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #276
dragonwriter wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three basic classes are the working class which survived on wage labor, the petit borgeoisie that both rent labor and work as essential means of support, and he capitalists whose support is dominantly derived by renting labor to apply to capital. The petit bourgeoisie is the middle class of the three. (The lower and upper middle class are both part of it.) Bill Gates (the Microsoft one) parents appear to have der…

Aren't those categories unactionable? I mean, a lady owns a beauty shop, spends 10 hours a day ordering supplies, doing payroll, managing advertising, hiring and fireing, somehow she's not working class because other people are involved and paid by her? A guy like Bill Gate's Dad is categorized middle class because he works alone, sort of, despite essentially bossing around his clients with autocratic decisions made…

[deleted]

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#284

Post by dragonwriter »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #276
dragonwriter wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The three basic classes are the working class which survived on wage labor, the petit borgeoisie that both rent labor and work as essential means of support, and he capitalists whose support is dominantly derived by renting labor to apply to capital. The petit bourgeoisie is the middle class of the three. (The lower and upper middle class are both part of it.) Bill Gates (the Microsoft one) parents appear to have der…

Aren't those categories unactionable? I mean, a lady owns a beauty shop, spends 10 hours a day ordering supplies, doing payroll, managing advertising, hiring and fireing, somehow she's not working class because other people are involved and paid by her? A guy like Bill Gate's Dad is categorized middle class because he works alone, sort of, despite essentially bossing around his clients with autocratic decisions made…

> Aren't those categories unactionable?

Not really; I mean, both sides of the log ideological struggle over capitalism and left alternatives has centered around both sides understanding and basing action around pretty much precisely the divisions in class interest reflected by those categories; they're quite actionable.

> I mean, a lady owns a beauty shop, spends 10 hours a day ordering supplies, doing payroll, managing advertising, hiring and fireing, somehow she's not working class because other people are involved and paid by her?

Right. As a business owner, she has distinct differences of interest from those living by wage labor (including an interest in minimizing the cost of wage labor); as someone who most apply their own labor as well as capital, she has economic interests distinct from those of pure capitalists. Hence, she's in the middle class of capitalism.

> A guy like Bill Gate's Dad is categorized middle class because he works alone, sort of, despite essentially bossing around his clients with autocratic decisions made in the quiet of his office?

Sure (though the founder of successful law firm probably is a working employer, not working alone.) Again, a similar alignment of interest is at play. There is an important distinction orthogonal to class, aside from just the degree of success, though: the lawyer is also part of the intelligentsia as well as the petit borgeoisie, while the beauty store owner is not. The intelligentsia cuts across classes, and have distinct interests.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#285

Post by erikpukinskis »

sumedh wrote: post #235
erikpukinskis wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/blog/little-help-bill-gates...

That is the same link which GP gave and it did not have any examples. Not sure why you linked it again So let me ask again, do you known any specific examples?

More details here: https://www.oaklandinstitute.org/sites/oaklandinstitute.org/...

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#286

Post by gozur88 »

rtpg wrote: post #277
rtx wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Resource allocation is at the base of all our problems. And capitalism has been the best solution so far.

extremely debatable. In the US, almost no national infrastructure was built through private means (though often privatised later). Private healthcare has been a disaster at maintaining a healthy public. An insistence on having government work happen through public contractors has generated massive conflicts of interests and made us end up with the most expensive infrastructure building process in the world. Just beca…

I don't know a good label for the US healthcare system, but it's so heavily regulated it's impossible to call it "private".

>Just because the Soviet Union fell over doesn't mean that capitalism has somehow been proven to be "the best solution".

Name one country implemented socialism (and by that I mean the government owns the means of production) and didn't end up worse off than when it started. Even the Northern European welfare states are capitalist.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#287

Post by cutler »

ta23231 wrote: post #184
cutler wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Depends who you cked over along the way, including your workers. Not saying this applies to Bill, though.

You missed the 90's I see. The guy is a ruthless, greedy arsehole.

Missed the 90s? Not really. With psychotherapy I've almost recovered from years of testing IE4-6 incompatibilities.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#288

Post by pharrington »

rtx wrote: post #266
rtpg wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core problem is that society has to rely on the whims of these people to solve problems. In an alternative universe we tax people more and ensure malaria eradication _whether or not Bill Gates personally decides to do so_. There are obviously coordination problems (not saying that "government can solve everything!", there are difficulties there too). But having huge organizations ask for donations from people is…

Resource allocation is at the base of all our problems. And capitalism has been the best solution so far.

It's at least been the best solution to creating value from resources.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#289

Post by bluthru »

bluthru wrote: post #195
burkaman wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I don't think it makes sense to compare population expansion to a refugee crisis. People leaving Africa right now are being forced out by war and violence, most of them aren't choosing to leave. In your hypothetical, I assume people are leaving for economic and social reasons, normal motivations for voluntary immigration. I don't think the refugee crisis will continue forever, and I don't think malaria eradicatio…

>People leaving Africa right now are being forced out by war and violence, most of them aren't choosing to leave. That was probably true in the past, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore: "The UN has said that seven in 10 people crossing the Mediterranean from Libya are economic migrants and the rest are 'people in need of protection' like refugees and asylum-seekers." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-…

Downvoted for citing UN data. Unbelievable.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#290

Post by pharrington »

gozur88 wrote: post #286
rtpg wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

extremely debatable. In the US, almost no national infrastructure was built through private means (though often privatised later). Private healthcare has been a disaster at maintaining a healthy public. An insistence on having government work happen through public contractors has generated massive conflicts of interests and made us end up with the most expensive infrastructure building process in the world. Just beca…

I don't know a good label for the US healthcare system, but it's so heavily regulated it's impossible to call it "private". >Just because the Soviet Union fell over doesn't mean that capitalism has somehow been proven to be "the best solution". Name one country implemented socialism (and by that I mean the government owns the means of production) and didn't end up worse off than when it started. Even the Northern Eur…

China.
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