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Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#161

This section is troubling. > In a not-so-distant future, if we're not there already, it may be that if you're going to put content on the Internet you'll need to use a company with a giant network like Cloudflare, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Amazon, or Alibaba. For context, Cloudflare currently handles around 10% of Internet requests. Without a clear framework as a guide for content regulation, a small number of com…

> For context, Cloudflare currently handles around 10% of Internet requests.

Something you'll be painfully aware once you try to browse the web through Tor and realise you have to waste your time with Cloudfare captchas every 10 minutes.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#162
post #136
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny what a company will say, then turn around and do... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/18/cloudflare_ceo_rubb... "It's not in CloudFlare's philosophy to just take down sites because management doesn't agree with the content," ...unless the press tells them what their philosophy needs to be? The lesson is that no capitalist company can remain neutral, today. Which has good and bad consequences. It's amaz…

It's my fear this locus of control or suppression of voices is part of the reason we have an increase in violent rhetoric. I learned an important lesson in 2016, my worldviews are not shared in America outside of big cities. It forced me to realize that I didn't even know people disagreed so fiercely because of media conglomerate created echo bubbles.

Don't for a moment think it is just a city/rural thing (with a bunch of conservative country bumkins).

Many people having non-leftwing ideas simply hide it. Since most workplaces have become politicised and hostile to conservative/right/slightly right of center views, people just hide it. Some people (including me) even engage in fake virtue signalling.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#163
post #136
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny what a company will say, then turn around and do... https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/18/cloudflare_ceo_rubb... "It's not in CloudFlare's philosophy to just take down sites because management doesn't agree with the content," ...unless the press tells them what their philosophy needs to be? The lesson is that no capitalist company can remain neutral, today. Which has good and bad consequences. It's amaz…

It's my fear this locus of control or suppression of voices is part of the reason we have an increase in violent rhetoric. I learned an important lesson in 2016, my worldviews are not shared in America outside of big cities. It forced me to realize that I didn't even know people disagreed so fiercely because of media conglomerate created echo bubbles.

[deleted]

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#164

> We might agree on a few points but trying to clarify that the murder wasn't a terrorist attack, that it was just "unplanned murder with a vehicle", makes me want to re-examine my opinions on the points where we agree. Are we going to call every road rage incident (1200/year in the US) a terrorist attack now? Please. I'd encourage you to evaluate your agreement with each of my points on an individual basis; each ide…

This wasn't roadrage, it was murder. Now get off your fake high horse, you don't get to claim the moral highground on account of a bunch of people that would like to do the same to a fairly large number of people. Think of that one murder as a free sample of what is to come if these people get their way.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#165

This is a slippery slope, Cloudflare. Once you take it upon yourself to begin moderating and regulating content, you are now -- in my opinion -- obligated to do so consistently. Do you really want that responsibility? My opinion may be unpopular, however. I'm one of those folks that believe that everyone, equally, deserves to be able to express their thoughts, beliefs, and beliefs regardless of whether I agree with t…

The issue extends beyond the moral. They've set a precedential behavior and now it can be used against them. "You took down X, but you won't take down Z?" This could be persuasive upon a judge or jury. By starting down this path, they've set up a standard of behavior that they will be judged against, for better or worse, moving forward.

That's a bad thing for us overall because now it won't just be something the CEO finds offensive; rather, it will be anything that could, through any potential legalistic contortion, result in legal liability.

We should all be very concerned about these low-level infrastructure components like GoDaddy, Google DNS, and CloudFlare beginning to adopt a policy of content moderation.

I'm shocked that something as simple as "they're nazis" is actually being accepted by people here; it is pretty much the stock anti-speech argument that we've all rehearsed forever. Sad to see that many aren't living up to it now that the cards are on the table.

Domains should only be seized when the government issues a binding legal order, not when the registrar or CDN's CEO wakes up on the wrong side of the bed.

This is so ridiculous that it's hard to imagine it's not coordinated specifically to weaken/undermine any form of anti-establishment or politically incorrect speech online. These attacks on core infrastructure delivery components need to be denounced loudly.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#166

> We might agree on a few points but trying to clarify that the murder wasn't a terrorist attack, that it was just "unplanned murder with a vehicle", makes me want to re-examine my opinions on the points where we agree. Are we going to call every road rage incident (1200/year in the US) a terrorist attack now? Please. I'd encourage you to evaluate your agreement with each of my points on an individual basis; each ide…

> Are we going to call every road rage incident (1200/year in the US) a terrorist attack now?

No, just like the fact that we call some attacks with guns terrorism doesn't mean every incident in which a firearm is discharged is terrorism.

The weapon used isn't what makes it terrorism.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#167

> We might agree on a few points but trying to clarify that the murder wasn't a terrorist attack, that it was just "unplanned murder with a vehicle", makes me want to re-examine my opinions on the points where we agree. Are we going to call every road rage incident (1200/year in the US) a terrorist attack now? Please. I'd encourage you to evaluate your agreement with each of my points on an individual basis; each ide…

[deleted]

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He also said this: >“I realized there was no way we were going to have that conversation with people calling us Nazis,” Prince said. “The Daily Stormer site was bragging on their bulletin boards about how Cloudflare was one of them and that is the opposite of everything we believe. That was the tipping point for me.”

Don't try to market yourself as critical Internet infrastructure if you're going to throw your principals away because someone made you feel icky. The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways. Edit: I was proud of Cloudflare not turning them off after their domain was deregistered. Now, so disappointed. Freedom of speech is rarely the speech we agree with. Or even speech we…

"The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways."

Are you implying that The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are worse than actual, literal Nazis? Because that's the only way I can see to read it, but that can't possibly be what you meant.

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said so himself in May that every website deserves due process before taking it offline. “Whenever you have a private organization which is making what are essentially law enforcement decisions, that is a risk to due process. And I think due process is important,” Prince said in the interview.

"Yup, they're Nazis". What more due process do you require?

[deleted]

Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer

#170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He said so himself in May that every website deserves due process before taking it offline. “Whenever you have a private organization which is making what are essentially law enforcement decisions, that is a risk to due process. And I think due process is important,” Prince said in the interview.

"Yup, they're Nazis". What more due process do you require?

There was a post on twitter earlier that said "Take your first name and your last name, that's your Nazi-fighting name".

I asked "Actual Nazi's like National Socialists with a Eugenics campaign, or people we just don't like".

Did not go well.

We should be careful to a) not call everything Nazi and thereby dilute the effect b) call people are actual Nazi's whatever the fuck you want, they can all go die quietly for all I care.

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