I like the article as that it still shows that they're committed to being neutral, however, they will respond when you try to drag them down with you. From the article, it sounds like the stormer bit the hand that fed them.
Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
111–120 of 1001 posts
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#112A sensible business decision by Cloudflare, and a fine moral stand to take. There is nothing positive to be gained by servicing such neo-Nazi websites, and Cloudflare is under no obligation to keep them as customers.
Similarly, the Daily Stormer is free to take their custom to a provider who turns a blind eye to or supports their toxic ideology.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think he's overstating the case. There are plenty of ways for that content to get on the internet that don't involve CloudFlare.
Booting them off cloudflare caused downtime at best.
It did. They're completely offline now. Since their .com got taken down, they had a .onion domain, which now simply says that they've moved to .ru, which is currently down thanks to Cloudflare. They'll probably return to that .onion domain shortly, but, as I'm writing this, they're completely off of the Internet.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#114Unless the site was directly breaking the law, I see this move as troubling. It's almost always better not to drive these kind of people to the underground, and I think most HN readers figure why this is. The problem I see is that in the current political climate the general population won't understand that or is unwilling to.
> It's almost always better not to drive these kind of people to the underground
Seems more like this would remove the echo chamber than drive them underground, I would agree with your point if it was about public shaming. But if FB goes offline I wouldn't consider anyone being "driven underground", more like forced above ground.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#115Free speech does not mean a company has to take part in spreading it :). Free speech is about your right to speak without the government locking you up, or censoring those who choose to broadcast/spread it. But nothing about free speech says someone else has to listen or spread it for you, companies included. The line is drawn at calling for violence though, which is pretty fucking tricky to navigate.
Seems like this is debateable at least - considering the ACLU is filing a lawsuit against DC's transit situation for not placing Milo's ads they agreed to post - http://nypost.com/2017/08/10/milo-yiannopoulos-gains-aclu-su... What counts as "spreading"? Do cell phone companies kick off customers with views they disagree with? Where is the line?
It depends on where the line in the sand is, or if that kind of discrimination is legal or not.
If AT&T wanted to terminate service to the Stormer organization they could do it without consequence, it's not their responsibility to provide coverage to anyone plus dog like they were under regulation. It's a free market. Stormer can find someone else.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
He also said this: >“I realized there was no way we were going to have that conversation with people calling us Nazis,” Prince said. “The Daily Stormer site was bragging on their bulletin boards about how Cloudflare was one of them and that is the opposite of everything we believe. That was the tipping point for me.”
Don't try to market yourself as critical Internet infrastructure if you're going to throw your principals away because someone made you feel icky. The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways. Edit: I was proud of Cloudflare not turning them off after their domain was deregistered. Now, so disappointed. Freedom of speech is rarely the speech we agree with. Or even speech we…
> The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways.
Yes people whose namesake is derived from a group of people that committed genocide is where I draw my line. Do you even hear yourself right now? What kind of mental gymnastics did you have to perform to equate internet vandalism and theft to hate groups who call for a return to Nazi practices?
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
He also said this: >“I realized there was no way we were going to have that conversation with people calling us Nazis,” Prince said. “The Daily Stormer site was bragging on their bulletin boards about how Cloudflare was one of them and that is the opposite of everything we believe. That was the tipping point for me.”
Don't try to market yourself as critical Internet infrastructure if you're going to throw your principals away because someone made you feel icky. The Pirate Bay and DDOS gangs are okay, but this was the line? The worlds gone sideways. Edit: I was proud of Cloudflare not turning them off after their domain was deregistered. Now, so disappointed. Freedom of speech is rarely the speech we agree with. Or even speech we…
Freedom of speech does not cover incitement nor hate speech.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#118I get the whole "companies can choose not to host whatever they want" argument, but in order to do anything on the internet, you have to interact with companies. If I want to run my own website, I need an IP address at the minimum, and ISPs are free to cut off my internet service if they don't like what I'm hosting. In a public setting, if people don't like what I'm saying, they can't force me to be quiet (generally)…
"Also, by not hosting Daily Stormer, you simply push them further down. One of the big reasons Trump won was because people felt like they weren't allowed to voice their opinions easily. There were people, basically closeted Trump supporters, who said they didn't like Trump, but secretly did. Pushing people down because they're "deplorables" simply reinforces their opinions."
I supported Trump(though didn't vote since I live in a deep blue state) and don't really agree with cloudflares decision, but I wouldn't use Trump supporters and "deplorables" as an argument for the Daily Stormer. It's one thing to be against immigration... heck it's one thing to be racist... but what the Daily Stormer engages in is dehumanization(and normalizes it). There's little on there that isn't said elsewhere more tactfully.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#119Malware distributors, DDoS purveyors, sellers of stolen credit cards, all those welcome as customers. However nazis isn't.
Good to know they had a line somewhere. I was just surprised to see it.
Re: Why We Terminated Daily Stormer
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Much like free speech due process concerns citizens and their government rather than people and any public organization.
He said so himself in May that every website deserves due process before taking it offline. “Whenever you have a private organization which is making what are essentially law enforcement decisions, that is a risk to due process. And I think due process is important,” Prince said in the interview.
"Yup, they're Nazis".
What more due process do you require?