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Facebook – You are the Product

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Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#161

Post by kronos29296 »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #122
kronos29296 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replaced it with whatsapp for communication with friends (not fb friends but Friends). I just have a facebook account cuz everybody else has one but it is filled with notifications and messages that I don't reply to. All the people around me know that I don't respond to. Viola, I am free of facebook and don't use it though I still have an account and have never deactivated it. Maybe it will not work for you. P.S HN s…

So you moved from Facebook to Facebook (whatsapp of course is owned by Facebook and gets the equivalent amount of information on you). Did you just want a different interface?

Less time wasted? I mean regardless of what I do, they will continue collect data about me. It is just a question of how much I personally contribute and how much they acquire from my friends. The real gain is you are less addicted to news feeds with the cursed infinite scrolling. A big gain for me.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#162

Post by rkul »

parthdesai wrote: post #49
notadoc wrote: post #5

I stopped using Facebook years ago and I could not recommend it more. I found it to be mental pollution at best and and a total waste of time. If you want to 'keep in touch' with people, call or text them. Make an effort to actually interact with the people who matter to you.

So tell me, how do i replace around 5 different group chats i have on messenger which can have anywhere between 5-10 people in each chat? Music events that i go to are exclusively promoted on facebook. How do you recommend i find out about these events so that i can get a cheaper ticket price? if anyone wants to organize a plan that has more than 8 people, facebook groups make it much much easier. I personally hate f…

Fb was taking too much of my time and attention since it was super easy to scroll either mobile or desktop.

What worked for me:

1. Delete facebook app from phone (hiding it didnt work) 2. Install Newsfeed eradicator chrome extension

Result: still maintaining communication with friends via messenger app and checking facebook only once in a while for events etc. News Feed was the attention grabber.

Helped me to get back attention and time. Would recommend.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#163

Post by bduerst »

yawz wrote: post #58
notadoc wrote: post #5

I stopped using Facebook years ago and I could not recommend it more. I found it to be mental pollution at best and and a total waste of time. If you want to 'keep in touch' with people, call or text them. Make an effort to actually interact with the people who matter to you.

Well... As someone who has moved to various countries and across continents a few times over the last three decades, I can hardly find another medium that allows me to keep up with friends and family across many countries and time zones easily. Before Facebook I created and/or used e-mail aliases, e-mail groups, forums, file hosting services, etc. to share our story with friends and family. Facebook makes it much sim…

This is what I don't get about the dichotomy of either quitting facebook or letting it run your life. Can't people just use fb minimally without it absorbing everything they do?

I login probably once a week at most, and only check messenger if someone pings me on it. It's not difficult, so why are so many people advocating deleting accounts to improve their lives?

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#164

Post by dieterrams »

mseebach wrote: post #153
lloydde wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pithy saying that gets across that you as the user and the proprietor's interests may not align. We are manipulated with low doses of pleasure, nostalgia, etc. This often involves some level of deception. Sophisticated psychology is used in advertisers. When you pay with money the incentives and transactions are more clear. I'm most aware of this through my children's interactions with entertainment where YouT…

Yeah, but it's mostly wrong, and it's a sophomoric commercephobic understanding of business (also, it's an arrogant and misanthropic view of Facebooks two billion actual users as ignorant victims of something that sounds almost like a scam). The exact same argument can be made for supermarkets: they are conduits for putting you in front of goods from suppliers (supermarkets invest a lot more in their relationship wit…

> If it does not fundamentally provide some value that you care about, you will stop using it

This isn't quite true, where addiction / compulsive usage can be implicated. Still, it's true that FB isn't completely in the pocket of advertisers and such. To the extent that they do make transgressions against their users, they will tend to not be overt.

FB doesn't have to make its users happy (whatever that means) so much as not piss them off.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#165

Post by iak8god »

mseebach wrote: post #153
lloydde wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a pithy saying that gets across that you as the user and the proprietor's interests may not align. We are manipulated with low doses of pleasure, nostalgia, etc. This often involves some level of deception. Sophisticated psychology is used in advertisers. When you pay with money the incentives and transactions are more clear. I'm most aware of this through my children's interactions with entertainment where YouT…

Yeah, but it's mostly wrong, and it's a sophomoric commercephobic understanding of business (also, it's an arrogant and misanthropic view of Facebooks two billion actual users as ignorant victims of something that sounds almost like a scam). The exact same argument can be made for supermarkets: they are conduits for putting you in front of goods from suppliers (supermarkets invest a lot more in their relationship wit…

> it's an arrogant and misanthropic view of Facebooks two billion actual users as ignorant victims of something that sounds almost like a scam)

Do you really think most of Facebook's users have any idea of the value of what they're handing over, or of how it's being used, or of the potential for abuse?

> And so it is with Facebook. If it does not fundamentally provide some value that you care about, you will stop using it, and in that important aspect their interests are aligned with yours.

Yes in the same sense that a heroin dealer's interests are aligned with the addict's.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#166

Post by zamber »

Alex3917 wrote: post #98
olympus wrote: post #31

I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product" idea is not these books. Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the one wh…

Different phrasing, but I had posted basically the exact same idea on HN and gotten tons of upvotes a few weeks earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1325103 I only posted it because one of my friends told me about hearing a speaker bringing up the idea at a conference, but it's an idea that's been around for decades.

Few days? HN bug?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1325103 > 2659 days ago

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#167

Post by ozim »

tdurden wrote: post #102
compiler-guy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a painfully simplistic response. No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out.

> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.

So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#168

Post by ozim »

tdurden wrote: post #102
compiler-guy wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a painfully simplistic response. No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out.

> And that, in fact, _does_ makes it hard to avoid using facebook without being left out. I think you might mean _fear_ of being left out...friends will find other ways to contact you.

So you are basically saying that you can be an ass and make it harder for others to contact you. Then if they are worthy enough you they will spend their time installing whatever communication tool you use. I do not get the feeling that I can be a princess and I also have to care about relation.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#169

Post by jeffdavis »

cortesoft wrote: post #118
olympus wrote: post #31

I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product" idea is not these books. Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the one wh…

I really don't like that phrase; you are NOT the product that facebook creates. Facebook creates a product which is a social media network. You PAY for that product with your data and your eyeballs. Facebook takes your payment, turns around, and sells it to advertisers and others interested in the data. That is not the same as saying you are the product.

Fisherman don't create fish. They lure them in with bait, trap them, and sell them.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#170

Post by phatbyte »

I dropped all my social networks in the beginning of the year. I did for two main reasons.

First, for privacy concerns. FB, specially was getting to creepy for me. I felt, every action I did was being analyzed and filtered, I felt like I was a lab rat. The fact that these companies know so much about us is pretty scary, I felt like I needed to regain my privacy, fight the system somehow.

Second reason was because, I wasn't getting anything substantial that could improve my life overall. All I saw was dumb-ass posts, ignorant comments, the passive aggressiveness, the "look at me doing this really mundane thing, but please like my picture so I can feel validated", etc... feels like a mouse-cat race to see which of us has a better life or something. I honestly feel bad for how much time I spent there when I could apply that time to learn new things.

After more than 6 months without FB, here's what I've learned:

- I still keep in touch with my closest friends, we chat on slack/iMessage every day. It's actually a good way to know who really misses you, during this time, only about 5% of my FB friends reached out to me through message or phone to ask how were things in life. The other 95%, I really don't even remember most of their names anymore. Just ask yourselves, why do we have to share so much of our lives with so many "friends"? I know we can filter, and create groups, etc.. but damn...do you really want to spend your life "managing" relationships, to see who sees what? I find that tiresome.

- I don't feel left out of anything, because I keep track of local events using other sources, I read news from faithful websites, and if I need to share anything I just use the old email or show face-to-face any pictures I need of my latest vacation from my phone without having to share anything with anyone.

- I gain more time, less stress, I don't feel overwhelmed to keep track of every social media update. I just don't care. If something important happens I will know it sooner or later.

- I no longer have this need to constantly keep posting photos of what I'm doing outdoors or whatever. I don't have the need to feel validated by anyone but myself.

- But most importantly, I regained my privacy, or at least my social footprint is bare none at this point. I'm using uBlock, Firefox, DuckDuckGo and other tools to keep trackers at bay.

I may never completely win this war, but at least my habits aren't being recorded and feed to any ML algorithm.

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