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Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

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Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#201

Post by deepnotderp »

baybal2 wrote: post #173
zerohp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will see stacked memory and silicon interposers, but you won't see main memory on the CPU die. DRAM is based on an array of what is called "trench capacitors." The fabrication process is sufficiently different that they don't even make these in the same facility, much less on the same die process. An array of trench capacitors will always be smaller than transistor based memory (SRAM.)

It is not a big problem to make DRAM on pretty much every SOI process, just power consumption and refresh rates will have to be quite big. The problem with MRAM is unreliable reads, they are excellent for low clock speed devices, but as you go into gigahertz range, signal quality of an mram cell begins to degrade, and you have to put a darlington on top of it, or a bicmos transistor, thus negating its cell size advan…

For DRAM are you talking about standard deep tech capacitor dram or FBRAM?

Agree with MRAM, but it is also a very immature technology, so there's hope at least. unless you're talking about crossbar crosstalk which can be solved with a diode.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#202

Post by iainmerrick »

jcranmer wrote: post #63
iainmerrick wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What on earth are people doing on spreadsheets that needs GPU acceleration??

Don't think of spreadsheets as glorified tables. Think of them as the world's most-commonly used business logic and statistical programming language. A competitor to R, if you will.

First, who runs business logic on GPUs?

Statistics, sure, that's definitely a good candidate for GPUs. I don't know much about R, but a quick google suggests you can run R code on a GPU, by working with certain object types, like matrices with GPU-accelerated operations.

That doesn't seem like it maps very well to a spreadsheet unless you have one big matrix per cell. I'm guessing (maybe incorrectly) that when people work with matrices in Excel, they're spread across a grid of cells. You probably could detect matrix-like operations and convert them to GPU batch jobs, but it seems very hard and I'm skeptical of how much you'd gain.

So I'm still wondering what kinds of typical Excel tasks are amenable to GPU acceleration in the first place. People use Excel to do a lot of surprising things, sure. But people use C++ and Python and Javascript for a lot of things too, and you can't just blithely move those over to the GPU.

Maybe it's specific expensive operations, like "fit a curve to the data in this huge block of cells"?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#203

Post by mlvljr »

kuschku wrote: post #158
meric wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spacecraft Economically? I think this or last year.

Economically, SpaceX is about 3% cheaper than Arianespace. That's not a 50% or 100% improvement. Maybe they'll get that improvement once they run recycled rockets all the time, but not before that.

Will anyone debunk the above? :)

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#204

Post by jrs95 »

majidazimi wrote: post #151

Hmmm. It seems Atom/Electron devs need to work hard to slow down new generation processors...

Atom has actually gotten significantly faster recently. It seems they've started to rewrite some core components of it in C++ for performance reasons. I've also used some Electron apps that are very lean. I think it's more of an implementation issue. Slack is pretty terrible at resource usage, for example, but Zeit's Hyper is very efficient & it's resource usage is comparable to iTerm in my experience.

Slack's issues with their electron app shouldn't be particularly surprising, either, considering it was their head architect that published an article on Medium advocating for PHP on the basis of it's concurrency model...

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#205

Post by iainmerrick »

iainmerrick wrote: post #202
jcranmer wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think of spreadsheets as glorified tables. Think of them as the world's most-commonly used business logic and statistical programming language. A competitor to R, if you will.

First, who runs business logic on GPUs? Statistics, sure, that's definitely a good candidate for GPUs. I don't know much about R, but a quick google suggests you can run R code on a GPU, by working with certain object types, like matrices with GPU-accelerated operations. That doesn't seem like it maps very well to a spreadsheet unless you have one big matrix per cell. I'm guessing (maybe incorrectly) that when people…

OK, so I googled around a bit more and found a useful presentation on LibreOffice internals: https://people.gnome.org/~michael/data/2014-05-13-iwocl-libr...

Looks like it is indeed identifying large groups of cells with common formulas, and running those calculations on the GPU.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#206

Post by spamizbad »

bluedino wrote: post #199
kakwa_ wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well actually I think it's more a case of "increase in performance is becoming harder and harder, the technology leader (Intel) is slowly becoming stuck and the competition (AMD) is catching up". Everybody will be more or less at the same level as it requires huge investments to only get a marginal advantage. Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os)…

Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os) on a 10 years old computer (2007 core 2 duo). But in 2007 I would not have thought for a minute that I could do the same on a 1997 computer (Pentium II), and installing 1997 software on a 1987 computer (80386), just no. People like to say a Core 2 Duo can still hang, and while it might be okay for basic tasks…

FWIW The technology that often makes older computers more tolerable these days tends to be the SSDs. I have a mid-2009 MBP with 8GB of RAM and a 256GB SSD that I still use for light duty web browsing and as a DAW in my little hobby studio.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#207

Post by Buge »

davemp wrote: post #190
turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

If CPU backdoors exist how has nobody logged network traffic required to abuse them?

Malware is in fact using IME.[1] And remotely exploitable vulnerabilities have been found it in.[2]

[1] https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/mmpc/2017/06/07/platinum...

[2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/intel...

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#208

Post by kuschku »

kuschku wrote: post #158
meric wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> spacecraft Economically? I think this or last year.

Economically, SpaceX is about 3% cheaper than Arianespace. That's not a 50% or 100% improvement. Maybe they'll get that improvement once they run recycled rockets all the time, but not before that.

@mlvljr: Your account seems to be shadowbanned, I can’t reply to your comment.

Currently, SpaceX has prices around 56-62 million USD per launch of a normal satellite (with a weight and orbit where they can recover the first stage).

Arianespace launches such lighter satellites in pairs, always two at once, at a price of around 60 million USD per satellite.

The Chinese launchers offer the same at around 70 million USD per launch.

So, the prices aren’t that different.

But, for launches from reused rockets, SpaceX is damn cheap. The first launch on a reused rocket cost below 30 million USD.

So, to recap: Today, in best case, SpaceX is between 4 and 13% cheaper than the next competitor. But in a few years, once they launch mostly reused rockets, they’ll be around 50 to 60% cheaper than the next competitor.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#210

Post by davemp »

Buge wrote: post #207
davemp wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If CPU backdoors exist how has nobody logged network traffic required to abuse them?

Malware is in fact using IME.[1] And remotely exploitable vulnerabilities have been found it in.[2] [1] https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/mmpc/2017/06/07/platinum... [2] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/05/intel...

I'm surprised I didn't hear about this until now. It looks like the user had to have enabled AMT, so this isn't exactly conspiracy levels.

It is troubling how little priority the computer world gives to proper security models.

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