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Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

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Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#31

Post by ryanx435 »

kikimaru wrote: post #28

>When your life is on the line, you have to know why you're fighting Pretty ironic, considering they're talking about the Iraq War (an invasion founded on lies & deceit)

if you'd ever actually listened to Jocko's podcast you'd know that often the reason soldiers fight is for their brother next to them.

The reasons that they enlist/join up in the first place, however, are unique to each individual. After joining up it is often out of the individual soldiers control about if they are sent to war or not.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#32

Post by jaclaz »

gadders wrote: post #5

Reading this bit: During a competitive boat race in Navy SEALs BUDS training, six teams competed for victory. After the first five races, there was a clear split: Team A placed first after every single race, and Team F had finished dead last. Jocko and the other instructors wanted to try something: what would happen if they took the group leader from Team A and put him in Team F's boat? Guess what? Team F won the nex…

>Reading this bit: ...

Sure, that of Gylippus is a very good historical example, but it simply doesn't fit.

I mean, Gylippus came from another society (Sparta) evidently better at educating their generals and soldiers.

Here we have someone that is giving advice on how to become good leaders, and he gives as an example the good leader of Team A and the bad leader of team F.

The only issue being that BOTH the team leaders were instructed by the same people and with the same methods, so if these methods were so good, there shouldn't be such a bad leader in team F.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#33

Post by fapjacks »

dancryer wrote: post #24
fapjacks wrote: post #3

You can get these lessons in the regular Navy, I'm assuming, since you can get these lessons in the regular Army. You get a free pair of boots, too.

Really, any branch of the military in any country in the world. They all teach the same.

Sure, totally. This was my sort of sarcastic attempt at recruiting. People seem enamored by the things taught by individuals with these credentials, and I always like to plug the military as a school for these leadership concepts, because that's really what the military does. I suggest to anybody in their 20s or early 30s that is keenly interested in learning this kind of thing (and applying it) to look at a short enlistment in the military. No need to drop everything you're doing, either: The reserves let you live your "normal" everyday life while serving. I successfully ran a handful of businesses over the course of my enlistment, and definitely have the Army to thank for filling in the blanks where it was needed.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#34

Post by gadders »

jaclaz wrote: post #32
gadders wrote: post #5

Reading this bit: During a competitive boat race in Navy SEALs BUDS training, six teams competed for victory. After the first five races, there was a clear split: Team A placed first after every single race, and Team F had finished dead last. Jocko and the other instructors wanted to try something: what would happen if they took the group leader from Team A and put him in Team F's boat? Guess what? Team F won the nex…

>Reading this bit: ... Sure, that of Gylippus is a very good historical example, but it simply doesn't fit. I mean, Gylippus came from another society (Sparta) evidently better at educating their generals and soldiers. Here we have someone that is giving advice on how to become good leaders, and he gives as an example the good leader of Team A and the bad leader of team F. The only issue being that BOTH the team lead…

That's one message to take from it. What I was trying to do though was give another historical example where good leadership made all the difference to a team (army) outcome.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#35

Post by thinkfurther »

beaconstudios wrote: post #23
thinkfurther wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good leader sets an example that others want to follow So does any random decent person, no leadership or subordination required. > one of the traits mentioned in the article is that an effective leader tells their people why they are doing what they are doing, Except they don't. They are repeating the rationalizations and their weak-ass half-truths that were hammered into their head. I doubt this guy told his me…

I think your hostility towards the military is getting in the way of discussing these ideas as they would apply outside the military. Just because the failure mode of a military leader isn't the same as a civilian leader, doesn't mean that advice for actually-beneficial leadership in the military doesn't apply to civilian life.

> I think your hostility towards the military is getting in the way of discussing these ideas

No, your unwillingness to address something like this does:

> Except the second they're unfit, they have nothing to say anymore. Because it arises naturally. Compare to the military where disobeying orders doesn't result in "Oh well, I should have made you want to do this, it's my fault you don't want to do it. Don't worry, we're cool."

My hostility doesn't keep me from speaking my mind, it's your excuse to not respond to it, and you're welcome to it. I'm hostile to water so I can look fire in the eye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjxcWKa4sow&t=22m40s

You can pry my connection to the innocent from my cold, dead hands, and I will not sabotage it by being too friendly to those who lick boots.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#36

Post by thinkfurther »

damnfine wrote: post #27
thinkfurther wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm dismissing it based on content. And the war didn't "happen", it was all actions of people. One element of it was Colin Powell sweating as he made his bullshit WMD presentation in front of the UN. Anyone with half a brain and half a gut would have seen all that crap for what it is. It's great he's such a great guy within the larger context of being a shitty guy, but that's like being a very good doctor on the…

If we wrote off every great thinker who also thought or did 'bad stuff', we would be quite poor technologically and philisophically. Think further man.

Nothing that makes sense in what he says I haven't heard put better by better people, who don't apply it in such a limited way.

Oh, and then there's people dismissing something just because Einstein said it, too. That's dismissing something because of someone being too good.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#37

Post by mbrodersen »

Here we go. Yet another "the workplace is like a combat zone and we should all be SEAL's" fawning article. No it isn't. And no we shouldn't. I most definitely can't do the job of a SEAL. And SEAL's most definitely can't do my job (developing software that run airlines). And the 5 "leadership skills" the article waffle on about? That is leadership 101. The same kind of obvious common sense stuff you learn from any management consultant wanna-be. On top of that, I actually had a manager years ago who was an ex-special operations whatever guy. He was the most incompetent manager I have ever had. And he had some stiff competition.

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#38

Post by pshirali »

I agree with the comments from @ryanx435 and @bitexploder.

Leadership is definitely something that draws parallels across all professions. The toughest realms for leadership are definitely amongst those where life is at risk or the stakes are high. Military is just one such example. However, you may also consider several other scenarios which demand exemplary leadership: like hostage negotiations, standoffs, medical relief, natural disaster & calamity management, space missions etc.

A lot of material on such subjects provide insight into how good leaders managed the best outcome for their teams, while facing immense odds. How such stuff applies to your field of work, or your thoughts on leadership is entirely upto you.

The intent however is that the reader/listener is inspired enough to rise against odds and find the inner will to resolve the task at hand (in their own field, whatever it may be), while also ensuring that the team involved has improved trust, inspiration and motivation as an outcome.

Here are some videos I find inspiring. I'm from India. These are by the Indian military and special forces, on similar lines to those of the article above. They give great insight into the challenges, thought process and leadership by example.

1. TEDx - Capt. Raghu Raman - How the armed forces do it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ-IBRGfJyY

2. Attributes of leadership - by Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw This was a talk addressing students. This talk discusses some fundamental attributes of leadership. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSvLFPFXjc8

3. An account of the Kargil War - by Col. Lalit Rai This video is slightly long. However it is a great account of leadership at its finest, and how exceptional results can be achieved by leading from the front. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1rIkwAoZGg

Re: Leadership Lessons from a Former Navy SEAL

#39

Post by dancryer »

fapjacks wrote: post #33
dancryer wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really, any branch of the military in any country in the world. They all teach the same.

Sure, totally. This was my sort of sarcastic attempt at recruiting. People seem enamored by the things taught by individuals with these credentials, and I always like to plug the military as a school for these leadership concepts, because that's really what the military does. I suggest to anybody in their 20s or early 30s that is keenly interested in learning this kind of thing (and applying it) to look at a short en…

Ha - Sorry if I sounded confrontational... I was actually agreeing with you.

As it happens, another great place to learn these skills is by volunteering with youth military cadet forces (in the UK, the Army, Air or Sea cadets.) I'm not sure how prevalent these are in the US? (I guess this is an example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Cadet_Alliance)

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