The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860 • Hacker News Board

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#11

Post by zimpenfish » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:08 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #7

zimpenfish wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> university professors complain about standards worsening in their annual intake of students They've been doing that since the 11th Century[1] - if this were even vaguely true, your current average student intake would be somewhere around the level of planaria or possibly tardigrades. It's demonstrable rubbish. [1] http://www.medievalists.net/2015/09/the-long-history-of-teac...

Ah yes, the well-worn 'people have always been complaining about things getting worse' rebuttal.. But your argument is flawed - just because it might not always have been true does not mean it is not true now. As I said, I'm inclined to believe those at the chalkface. Here's one reference I was able to find easily: https://www.bjupress.com/resources/articles/t2t/declining-li...

> bjupress.com

Would you consider them an unbiased source given their stated goal is to "support Christian educators by producing textbooks and materials that shape a biblical worldview"?

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#12

Post by mirimir » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:13 PM UTC

tl;dr

The railway firm used an off-brand wheel on the engine. It had a flaw in a weld, and failed. The engine derailed.

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#13

Post by laumars » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:13 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #9

m0nty wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is expressing your individuality incompatible with good writing?

a. are we really going to harm poor precious little Henry by making him rote learn grammar instead of expressing the minimal amount of individuality he might have by school age (we don't read books written by children because they don't have much interesting to say) b. by not giving children a proper grasp of language we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves, for God's sake

I think it's dangerous to assume that kids neither have individually nor anything interesting to say.

Just the other day my 3 year old was explaining to me how cars, tablet PCs and people all need different types of energy to function. I found that conversation to be far more interesting than half the discussions I have with peers of my own age.

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#14

Post by Boothroid » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:19 PM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #11

Boothroid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the well-worn 'people have always been complaining about things getting worse' rebuttal.. But your argument is flawed - just because it might not always have been true does not mean it is not true now. As I said, I'm inclined to believe those at the chalkface. Here's one reference I was able to find easily: https://www.bjupress.com/resources/articles/t2t/declining-li...

> bjupress.com Would you consider them an unbiased source given their stated goal is to "support Christian educators by producing textbooks and materials that shape a biblical worldview"?

That's another logical fallacy. There are stacks of references available on this.

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#15

Post by Boothroid » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:23 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #13

Boothroid wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a. are we really going to harm poor precious little Henry by making him rote learn grammar instead of expressing the minimal amount of individuality he might have by school age (we don't read books written by children because they don't have much interesting to say) b. by not giving children a proper grasp of language we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves, for God's sake

I think it's dangerous to assume that kids neither have individually nor anything interesting to say. Just the other day my 3 year old was explaining to me how cars, tablet PCs and people all need different types of energy to function. I found that conversation to be far more interesting than half the discussions I have with peers of my own age.

OK, so what about point b - by prioritising children expressing their individuality we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves with eloquence?

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#16

Post by ivanbakel » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:33 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #14

zimpenfish wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bjupress.com Would you consider them an unbiased source given their stated goal is to "support Christian educators by producing textbooks and materials that shape a biblical worldview"?

That's another logical fallacy. There are stacks of references available on this.

Could you then find another one?

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#17

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:34 PM UTC

carl_dr wrote: post #2

And the Railway Department report into the incident, with obviously many more details : http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/BoT_TottenhamFeb1...

TL;DR

There was a defect in a tire that when subject to wear failed catastrophically causing the front axle to derail when braking prior to entering the station. The train was braking later than the textbook safe distance and was not configured for ideal braking performance. The derailed axle hit some of the track infrastructure causing the locomotive to jump the tracks and hit the platform while the rest of the trail piled on the back.

Just like every other "disaster" it's a bunch of otherwise inconsequential actions, bad luck, an operating procedure that doesn't account for day to day reality and a little bit of corner cutting coming together at the same time.

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#18

Post by laumars » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 1:35 PM UTC

Boothroid wrote: post #15

laumars wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's dangerous to assume that kids neither have individually nor anything interesting to say. Just the other day my 3 year old was explaining to me how cars, tablet PCs and people all need different types of energy to function. I found that conversation to be far more interesting than half the discussions I have with peers of my own age.

OK, so what about point b - by prioritising children expressing their individuality we are actually limiting their ability to express themselves with eloquence?

I didn't really want to get into an argument about education but since you asked: honestly, I see no evidence to support your point. My wife is a primary school teacher and most of my extended family currently work or have worked in schools. Not one person I've spoken to has ever talked about kids being treated even remotely in the fashion you describe.

I am sure you could find some specific examples which support your theory but my experience would suggest those examples are the exception rather than the norm.

You could make the argument that it is easier for kids to express their individuality than it ever has been but I think the credit for that belongs to the Internet and changing social attitudes rather than schooling (though maybe schools have become more intolerant to bullying than when I was young? That would also certainly help).

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#19

Post by foobarbecue » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 2:03 PM UTC

Trains had tyres??

Re: The Tottenham Station Railway Disaster of 1860

#20

Post by damnfine » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 2:11 PM UTC

foobarbecue wrote: post #19

Trains had tyres??

Forged steel, vs the cast steel/iron of the wheels themselves. They are heated and press fit on the wheels, and the cooling shrinks them onto the wheel. This is usually semi-permanant, with replacements only from wear against the rails. The cast iron would be too brittle and crack. In this case I would assume there was a casting defect in the wheel, which broke within the 'tyre'. Wagon wheel tyres are made in a similar way, but use wood spoked centers.