Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#141

Post by arnon » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 9:53 AM UTC

dom0 wrote: post #139

zanny wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libreoffice has OpenCL acceleration for some spreadsheet operations. With the advent of NVME storage, and the potential bandwidth it yields, I would expect to see database systems emerging that can GPGPU accelerate operations on tables to be way, way faster than what a CPU can handle.

> I would expect to see database systems emerging that can GPGPU accelerate operations on tables to be way, way faster than what a CPU can handle. Why do you expect that? Many DBMS operations that are not I/O limited are memory limited, and a GPU does not help you there (on the contrary, you get another bottleneck in data transfers to the small GPU memory). What can help is better data organization, e.g. transposed (…

That's why all GPU databases I know of are columnar, or at least hybrid (in the case of IBM DB2 BLU)...

The more complex the operations performed on the columns (trasnform), the better the GPU database will be - because of the higher ops/bytes ratio

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#142

Post by hvidgaard » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 9:59 AM UTC

slededit wrote: post #124

hvidgaard wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement was stating an absolute. Algorithmic complaxity matters more than the speed of the computing hardware. Obviously, more power means you can compute more, but not everything.

That's a very uncharitable reading of what I wrote. The topic of the conversation was GPU performance vs CPU performance. Despite being less flexible, the sheer quantity of execution units more than makes up for it. But no, I suppose its more likely I was really saying GPUs aren't bounded by the limits of the universe.

The context is Primecoin and ability to find primes. Prime factorization is related to that, and it would be obvious to read your statement in absolut for that context and it's relation. At least I did.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#143

Post by floatboth » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:04 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #105

sspiff wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this should be discussed in this thread. Also, I don't know of any alternative that doesn't have large unauditable blobs integrated into the chip. All ARM SoCs come with radio processors that are running a non-trivial piece of software with full access to the system memory, which is responsible for power management, boot sequence and wireless communications. It is by definition network connected. AMD has…

Why should a serious backdoor, privacy concerns and ethical problems with a monopolies new product not be discussed in a thread about that product? Not sure I get your point on that. But yeah you are totally right on the alternatives. Nothing quite matches Intel and AMD, and a lot of those ARM SoC's have proprietary code running on their bootloader too. But you can get some processor from 7 years ago that are usable.…

> a lot of those ARM SoC's have proprietary code running on their bootloader too

Usually possible to replace that blob! e.g. https://github.com/christinaa/rpi-open-firmware for the Raspberry Pi

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#144

Post by heavenlyblue » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:04 AM UTC

dom0 wrote: post #126

nostrademons wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPUs: http://michaelgalloy.com/2013/06/11/cpu-vs-gpu-performance.h... http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/... This is behind much of the interest in machine learning these days. Deep learning provides a way to approximate any computable function as the composition of matrix operations with non-linearities. It does this at the cost of requiring many, many times the computing power. But much of…

I don't think GPUs are a particularly good solution for these, they aren't the future and won't be around for mass-deployment that much longer.

It seems the author is down the 'deep learning' rabbit hole.

>> It does this at the cost of requiring many, many times the computing power. But much of this computing cost can be parallelized and accelerated effectively on the GPU, so with GPU cores still increasing exponentially, at some point it's likely to become more effective than CPUs.

So can be any matrix. Sadly, there aren't as many algorithms that are efficiently represented by one.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#145

Post by jsudhams » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:05 AM UTC

turblety wrote: post #83

I wonder if this one will come with free backdoors and spyware installed, thanks to the wonderful Intel Management Engine (Intel ME) backdoor. [1][2][3] Intel (and AMT) keep pushing more and more proprietary code that can not be read, changed or removed. No one knows exactly what it does and it has built in screen and key recording. It's my advice and the advice of privacy advocates that no one should purchase or use…

So it does affect only Desktop workload right? Because on servers as long as we use virtuals we should be good. Am i right?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#146

Post by floatboth » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:07 AM UTC

zanny wrote: post #39

bhouston wrote: post #31

What will be the clock when single threaded? Can we get above 5GHz finally?

We have been over 5ghz for a decade, it just takes ln2 to do it. We aren't going to see ludicrously high clock rates for the foreseeable future. There are a lot of compounding factors as to why, but the biggest ones are the pressure for efficiency driving designs that aren't dumping higher and higher voltage to get frequency, the diminishing returns on voltage vs frequency (see Ryzen, where a 20% improvement in clock…

Delidded Kaby Lake also sometimes does 5GHz on air IIRC

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#147

Post by chillydawg » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

dom0 wrote: post #126

nostrademons wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPUs: http://michaelgalloy.com/2013/06/11/cpu-vs-gpu-performance.h... http://www.anandtech.com/show/7603/mac-pro-review-late-2013/... This is behind much of the interest in machine learning these days. Deep learning provides a way to approximate any computable function as the composition of matrix operations with non-linearities. It does this at the cost of requiring many, many times the computing power. But much of…

I don't think GPUs are a particularly good solution for these, they aren't the future and won't be around for mass-deployment that much longer.

That's quite a statement - what will replace GPUs for the ever increasing amount of ML work being done?

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#148

Post by nolok » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:29 AM UTC

kakwa_ wrote: post #70

nullnilvoid wrote: post #4

As a consumer, it's great to see competition picking up in the CPU market. Intel does not seem to be able to hold the edge in node process as tsmc and Samsung are matching intel. It has to resort to architecture design.

Well actually I think it's more a case of "increase in performance is becoming harder and harder, the technology leader (Intel) is slowly becoming stuck and the competition (AMD) is catching up". Everybody will be more or less at the same level as it requires huge investments to only get a marginal advantage. Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os)…

> Apart from games, I would not be that afraid to install recent pieces of software (browser, office suit, os) on a 10 years old computer (2007 core 2 duo).

Ah, I can answer that one for you: my work computer of that time (E6850, 8 GB RAM), which cost me less than a thousand euros to build back then, has since been reconverted as a work computer for one of my employee, running Windows 10, Office 2016 and Chrome all day long. Only addition has been a 120GB SSD.

It runs much better than the "modern" and "cheap" ~ 400 euros integrated work computer I bought from ASUS and HP in 2015.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#149

Post by bitL » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:32 AM UTC

In retrospective, Intel should have bought NVidia when they had the chance; GPUs is the only area making huge progress year to year now.

Re: Intel Reveals Post-8th Gen. Core Architecture 10nm+ Ice Lake

#150

Post by ZenoArrow » Wed, Aug 16, 2017, 10:37 AM UTC

bitL wrote: post #149

In retrospective, Intel should have bought NVidia when they had the chance; GPUs is the only area making huge progress year to year now.

Intel didn't buy NVIDIA, but they did buy Altera, and there's plenty of room for growth with FPGAs.