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Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

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Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#171

Post by Retric »

randyrand wrote: post #148
Retric wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to 'take it back.' But, I feel donations should not be tax deductible. Why should I subsidize anything someone feels is worth donating for?

I edited my comment. By take back I did not mean the current wealth from of the current generation of wealthy. But take-back over generations using very large marginal tax rates. E.g. 'solve' the problem of the 0.1% being so rich.

Confiscating wealth is counter productive. But, so is a large group with unearned wealth where nobody they know actually earned anything.

IMO, the balance point is setting things up so the default is wealth is not maintained across several generations (3+), even though it can be passed down 1 or 2 generations and can be maintained with care past that point.

PS: I say this with many wealthy friends and family. It's surprisingly destructive and I don't want to setup multi generational wealth for my great grand children.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#172

Post by bluthru »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #131
canoebuilder wrote: post #124

eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society). If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the ab…

You are talking about children dying... And you are also making the assumption that only Europe can contribute to innovation, and Africans can only be a burden on their neighbors and will never become contributors. I would agree that if the solving of a crisis like Malaria results in population growth, we need to plan on success and also focus on supporting infrastructure for those people. But I think you are saying…

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Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#173

Post by canoebuilder »

cvigoe wrote: post #144
canoebuilder wrote: post #124

eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society). If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the ab…

Certainly, it is important to make efforts to be cognizant of negative ripple effects arising from even the most altruistic of endeavors, but it is also necessary to actually make decisions. The Horizon Effect[1] is unavoidable in situations like you are describing, but the most we can do is act conscientiously and avoid paralysis due to the inherent uncertainty that arises from our actions. I know this isn't the exa…

Good response!

It is certainly good to consider this perspective, thanks for the insight and link.

To me it seems that potential negative consequences of continued rapid population growth in Africa aren't so nebulous and beyond the horizon, we are already seeing them materialize, certainly there are other problems that need to solved as well, like certain elements of society attempting to browbeat others into thinking these societal disruptions are normal or acceptable or shouldn't be guarded against, but the population growth outside Europe is one of the prime movers of the negative effects we have already observed.

If things continue as they are the only uncertainty is the degree to which European civilization and thus European civilization's contribution to the world is negatively effected.

I harbor no affinity for Malaria or human suffering in general, but by ham handedly addressing this patch of suffering are we pulling open a larger patch somewhere else?

So what's the best way to address the suffering caused by malaria with a little more finesse and awareness?

Is there even a direct provable causal link between mosquito nets and population growth?

As mentioned, we are discussing an immensely complex system with all the surprises and non-linearity that entails.

what, if any, are other causes of African population growth?

What should be the Hippocratic Oath for philanthropy?

"First do no harm" is taken, "Secondarily no harm"?

How many steps toward the horizon should we take to determine if harm is occurring?

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#174

Post by ABCLAW »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #150
pmoriarty wrote: post #128

A different view on Gates' charity work: [1] Some highlights: "The first question concerns accountability... The Foundation is the main player in several global health partnerships and one of the single largest donors to the WHO. This gives it considerable leverage in shaping health policy priorities and intellectual norms..." "‘Depending on what side of bed Gates gets out of in the morning,’ he remarks, ‘it can shif…

Are you serious? This is almost too goofy to merit a response. Yes, when a billionaire gives away billions of dollars he's not accountable to anybody else. Why the heck would he be? If he were, then he wouldn't have donated it in the first place but would have just "invested it" in a company he created and controlled. There's no way to spin this where donating to a charity is more evil than what all the other .1%s do…

It isn't that goofy, and it's a known issue in providing international aid. If I provide a country with agricultural issues a number of tractors, but then outsize repair, maintenance and consumable costs for operating the tractors while also ignoring the social issues associated with the donation, my donation of resources can cause downstream problems for the aid recipient which dwarf the benefit provided by the donation itself.

That said, without concrete examples of emergent issues, I err on the side of praising aid efforts rather than condemning them.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#175

Post by bluthru »

joshuahedlund wrote: post #163
canoebuilder wrote: post #124

eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society). If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the ab…

Gates has addressed these concerns with scientific data showing that "when children survive in greater numbers, parents decide to have smaller families."[0] [0] https://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/Resources-and-Med...

Yeah they've been saying that for a while now. Who's wrong, Gates or the UN?

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/55d38ec0dd089595388...

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#177

Post by canoebuilder »

carlisle_ wrote: post #158
canoebuilder wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if that was an intentional flattery tactic to get me to read your most more closely, but it worked, thanks, regardless. I'm surprised if the post read as "more children dying is the obvious optimal path," that wasn't my intent. I'm meaning to draw attention to the fact that if we are going to have outside interventions into societies that have drastic effects on those societies, then the outside interven…

You didn't address it and I think there is merit to the point being made about your "bedside manner". I agree with your viewpoint, but it is important to tread carefully when it comes to the lives of others. Your point can be lost not by lack of merit but by lack of semantics.

Thank you for the feedback! Being hyper aware(at least I think so) of this issue you mention I tried mightily to tread carefully.

I think for the most part, the nature of the issue just makes it inherently open to objections of "bedside manner" when discussed in "polite society."

What do you think I could have done better in terms of phrasing or what have you?

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#178

Post by canoebuilder »

dmoy wrote: post #167
canoebuilder wrote: post #124

eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society). If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the ab…

The US fertility rate is less than half of what it was a century ago, and less than a third of what it was 150-160 years ago. European fertility rates are similarly down by fourfold or something. It does not take many generations at all for fertility rates to drop precipitously once child mortality, women's education, etc go up. Your underlying premise "there is significant delay in the abatement of the overproductio…

Your underlying premise "there is significant delay in the abatement of the overproduction strategy if it abates at all" is probably not correct

That's the premise of population forecasters at the UN.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#179

Post by [deleted] »

bluthru wrote: post #172
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking about children dying... And you are also making the assumption that only Europe can contribute to innovation, and Africans can only be a burden on their neighbors and will never become contributors. I would agree that if the solving of a crisis like Malaria results in population growth, we need to plan on success and also focus on supporting infrastructure for those people. But I think you are saying…

.

[deleted]

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#180

Post by sctb »

canoebuilder wrote: post #124

eradication of Malaria (1000 deaths daily, much more suffering and cost to society). If great efforts are made to eradicate diseases in an area that has historically been subjected to various diseases such that the local population has adopted the reproduction strategy of having large amounts of offspring to counter premature deaths, but upon eradication/reduction of said diseases there is significant delay in the ab…

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15019192 and marked it off-topic.
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