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Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

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Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#111

Post by toomuchtodo »

zaroth wrote: post #96
toomuchtodo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 21% for FY 2016 (which is a percentage based on including social security and medicare, which as I mentioned, are not part of federal income tax receipts; the percentage ). 2017 isn't done yet; I'm not using an estimate with an administration going sideways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... "Military budget of the United States. ... The budget funds 4 branches of the U.S. military:…

OK, that is bizarre; visit usgovernmentspending.com site on mobile and the chart says US FY2016 spending on Defense is 17%. On desktop, the chart says 21%.... In any case, as a percentage of federal income tax it does seem that defense is around 25%. "U.S. discretionary spending" is simply spending which is authorized annually instead of authorized by laws spanning multiple years. It doesn't seem to be a highly meani…

> Separating out payroll vs income taxes -- in other words recognizing the different tax rates for "earned" vs. "unearned" income -- is not entirely irrelevant, because dollar for dollar your capital gains taxes will be spent more on defense than welfare, but it's still no where near 50% of your capital gains taxes being spent on defense.

So that's not entirely how income vs payroll taxes work.

If you get a paycheck, out comes taxes for social security and Medicare. There is an annual limit on how much of your income is taxed for social security, whereas there is no limit for Medicare, and there's a bump in the Medicare rate after a very high dollar amount (near $250k/year if I recall). For our argument, none of the above is refundable (if you pay too much social security tax because of multiple W2 employers, the extra tax gets applied to your federal income liability).

For income tax, lots of people pay through their paycheck, although if you're below a certain yearly income threshold, federal income tax is not withheld (you even get a refundable tax credit for working if you're poor enough). Also, as you mentioned, capital gains taxes also are federal income tax revenue. So, income tax is not unearned income alone.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#112

Post by charlesdm »

zrail wrote: post #90
charlesdm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do charities in the US enjoy an exemption on capital gains taxes when selling stocks?

Yes. Public 501c3 charities enjoy an exemption from almost all taxes.

There you go. You donate a billion in stock, and it ends up being a complete tax free transfer from stock into cash. Tax avoidance 101 guys

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#113

Post by toomuchtodo »

Chathamization wrote: post #110
toomuchtodo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of federal income tax receipts go to military spending [+] (ignore social security and healthcare, those are funded out of compulsory payroll taxes, which is distinct from federal income tax); you're doing more social good (in general) by diverting wealth to charities that promote social welfare than giving that money to the federal government (I'm sad to say). Sometimes democracy is wrong. More social p…

If you're concerned about military spending, your best course of action is voting against politicians that want to increase defense spending. Lower taxes on the wealthy doesn't keep the government from spending on defense, it just runs up a deficit that is then used as an excuse to cut non-defense spending (research, infrastructure, food for the impoverished, etc.).

> If you're concerned about military spending, your best course of action is voting against politicians that want to increase defense spending.

I'm only one person, and my one vote carries little weight.

> Lower taxes on the wealthy doesn't keep the government from spending on defense, it just runs up a deficit that is then used as an excuse to cut non-defense spending (research, infrastructure, food for the impoverished, etc.).

I'm not against higher taxes, but I'm also not against the wealthy avoiding taxes in the case of Gates and Buffett (and for other reasons, Elon Musk, using his wealth to drive progress forward) when their wealth are going to social causes. If you can't adjust how the federal gov budgets, starve the beast until competent representatives are in office while doing good for those in need.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#114

Post by adventured »

2_listerine_pls wrote: post #33

He is donating it to The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, which is controlled by himself. Isn't it just a different form of ownership?

It's a different form of control, not ownership. Bill Gates can never regain personal ownership of that wealth.

If Gates was interested in personally owning all of that wealth, the only logical approach would have been to never give it away in the first place.

The point of the foundation is that it's the ideal vehicle to give the wealth away to causes that Bill and Melinda decide they want to have an impact on. It's ideal because in exchange for giving the wealth away, the taxes are avoided. It's that simple. The people that routinely claim in threads like this, that it's just a scheme for dodging taxes, those people apparently do not understand much about foundation regulations or taxes.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#115

Post by ehsanu1 »

theobon wrote: post #91
ChuckMcM wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see it a bit differently, if you can figure out both all of the functional relationships in our bodies and devise a mechanism to precisely drive any and all of them, not only will you 'cure cancer' but you will be able to cure any other disease or ailment that is expressed as an undesirable functioning of that system. I don't know if you can do that with $20B but I feel these days that its more likely to occur rath…

We are barely able to simulate a simple reptile brain and you are asking for complete understanding and simulation of any human body. I think you are vastly underestimating the complexity of biological system.

What's the project for simulating a reptile brain? I know we've not fully nailed the ~1000 cells required for simulating a whole worm, though we're getting there: http://www.openworm.org/

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#116

Post by adventured »

0xbear wrote: post #74
hbk1966 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a non profit so no one owns it. He is still in control of it though,

That's a common misconception. Nonprofits _do_ have owners. And also, while they can't make money directly, they can spin off for-profit companies if e.g. they invent a cure for cancer or something.

That's incorrect. Nonprofits can't have owners.

https://cullinanelaw.com/nonprofit-law-basics-who-owns-a-non...

https://www.501c3.org/who-really-owns-a-nonprofit/

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#117

Post by escot »

> Gates remains the richest person on earth after the donation with a fortune the Bloomberg Billionaires Index valued at $86 billion as of 10:40 a.m. Tuesday in New York. His donation once again puts Amazon.com Inc. founder Jeff Bezos close to the top spot, with a net worth of $84.5 billion.

Keeping a bit of wiggle room.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#118

Post by pmoriarty »

zaroth wrote: post #96
toomuchtodo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's 21% for FY 2016 (which is a percentage based on including social security and medicare, which as I mentioned, are not part of federal income tax receipts; the percentage ). 2017 isn't done yet; I'm not using an estimate with an administration going sideways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_... "Military budget of the United States. ... The budget funds 4 branches of the U.S. military:…

OK, that is bizarre; visit usgovernmentspending.com site on mobile and the chart says US FY2016 spending on Defense is 17%. On desktop, the chart says 21%.... In any case, as a percentage of federal income tax it does seem that defense is around 25%. "U.S. discretionary spending" is simply spending which is authorized annually instead of authorized by laws spanning multiple years. It doesn't seem to be a highly meani…

For a different view on this, see The Trickery of the US Military Budget.[1]

"A key federal budget trick is using words to confuse citizens, such as labeling U.S. military spending as “defense” though much is for “offense” and sliding costs for wounded soldiers under “veterans affairs” and nuclear bombs under “energy,” as ex-CIA analyst Paul R. Pillar explains..."

Also, from [2]:

"The most recent figures related to President Trump’s proposed increases in Pentagon spending, along with cuts at the State Department, show the general national security budget of the United States rising once again, with the 2018 proposal in the ballpark of $1.1 trillion."

Finally, see [3], where the budget breakdown is:

The Pentagon budget - $575 billion

The war budget - $64.6 billion

Nuclear warheads - $20 billion

‘Other Defense’ - $8 billion

Homeland security - $50 billion

Military aid - $7 billion

Intelligence - $70 billion

Supporting veterans - $186 billion

Military retirement - $80 billion

Defense share of interest on the debt - $100 billion

[1] - http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article33833.htm

[2] - http://www.veteransnewsnow.com/2017/06/02/1015056-the-milita...

[3] - https://warisboring.com/the-trillion-dollar-military-budget/

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#119

Post by Chathamization »

adventured wrote: post #23
SEJeff wrote: post #21

I'm surprised that people are asking how / why he is giving money away and no one mentioned his Giving Pledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giving_Pledge Bill Gates and Warren Buffet pledged to give half of their net worth away during their life or death to charity. They're practicing what they preach.

Gates and Buffett have, for many years now, publicly pledged to give away basically 99% of their wealth. Buffett's premise on not giving much of his wealth to his children, goes back perhaps 40 or 50 years now based on what he has said. According to Gates, an article that Buffett wrote for a business magazine, published ~25 some years ago now, informed and altered Bill's thinking on the detriment of giving such immen…

> Buffett's premise on not giving much of his wealth to his children

I mean, it's still an insanely huge amount of money he'd be giving to his children (Gates as well). 1% of his networth is $762 million - you're talking about an insane amount some people are going to get just by being born (even after taking into account inheritance taxes and splitting the money among siblings).

And we should also remember that charity is a form of conspicuous consumption for the ultrawealthy. Huge charitable donations are the modern day equivalent to monuments or statues. You're well passed the point where your money can increase your personal well being, so you might as well spend it on something that makes people pay attention to you, wins you accolades and gives you a legacy.

Re: Gates Makes Largest Donation Since 2000 with $4.6B Pledge

#120

Post by smeyer »

joering2 wrote: post #34
adventured wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cascade's investments are roughly 1/2 of his wealth. Bloomberg is currently estimating he's sitting on $43 billion in cash. https://www.bloomberg.com/billionaires/profiles/william-h-ga...

Honest question: can half of it for example $20B in cash, cure cancer? or HIV/AIDS?

I didn't see anyone else point how much money is already spent on cancer research. For perspective, the National Cancer Institute has a budget of about $5.4 billion for 2017, and that's not the only source of funding for cancer research. So in short, more than $20 billion has already been spent on cancer research and while an extra $20 billion would obviously help, it wouldn't be any sort of guarantee, let alone instant solution.

https://www.cancer.gov/about-nci/budget

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