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Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

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Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#231

Post by pw »

'austenallred is a cool individual, and this seems like it could be a particularly good take on the code school model, but I always wonder if programs like this help on the margin. That is, do they help people succeed (i.e. get a job in software) who otherwise wouldn't, or do they just accelerate the success of those who would, one way or another, eventually succeeded regardless of their participation in the program? I think the latter might be likely simply just because for good programs (like this one) demand far outstrips supply, so they can be extremely picky about who they accept and only accept individuals who are destined to succeed.

Not that accelerating the success of those destined to succeed is in any way a bad thing (it is, undoubtedly, a good thing, and can certainly make for a good business), but my interest is much more in helping those succeed who otherwise wouldn't. That seems like a much harder challenge and one that can have more interesting ramifications for things like social mobility and income inequality.

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#232

Post by thanksgiving »

plinkplonk wrote: post #204
iomotoko wrote: post #192

In the registration process: Are you legally authorized to work in the United States? Just a note: We are currently unable to offer income-based repayment outside of the United States. You can still attend Lambda School, but you would have to pay at least $10,000 up-front $10,000 - that's about as expensive as a high quality bachelor's degree (in Germany) at private university via distance learning, where someone can…

If I wanted to spend 10,000 $ on a CS education, I'd put some of it into the Georgia Tech online MS program [1] and still have 3k+ left. Admittedly I do have a Bachelor's degree in (non CS) engineering,so I meet their eligibility criteria. Burning 10k for a non accredited "CS" education makes no sense. How much Computer Science you can learn in 6 months is another question. If you don't want accreditation,why not wor…

I wish they taught you JavaScript but I'm afraid a few of them "directly" teach you react or some library or framework.

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#233

Post by airza »

tedmiston wrote: post #193
iomotoko wrote: post #192

In the registration process: Are you legally authorized to work in the United States? Just a note: We are currently unable to offer income-based repayment outside of the United States. You can still attend Lambda School, but you would have to pay at least $10,000 up-front $10,000 - that's about as expensive as a high quality bachelor's degree (in Germany) at private university via distance learning, where someone can…

Germany is an outlier in higher education. In the US, $10k is lucky to get you 1 year of in-state tuition and books (excluding room and board) at an average public state school with a CS program. If you go to college in a state different than what you live in, the rates are even higher.

the united states is the outlier here

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#234

Post by MarkMc »

pw wrote: post #231

'austenallred is a cool individual, and this seems like it could be a particularly good take on the code school model, but I always wonder if programs like this help on the margin. That is, do they help people succeed (i.e. get a job in software) who otherwise wouldn't, or do they just accelerate the success of those who would, one way or another, eventually succeeded regardless of their participation in the program?…

> demand far outstrips supply, so they can be extremely picky about who they accept and only accept individuals who are destined to succeed

The same criticism has been applied to top-tier universities such as Harvard:

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/who-needs-harvard/

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#235

Post by gambiting »

TrickyRick wrote: post #229
yorwba wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original example was 10k for a "private university via distance learning", which I assume won't be free in Sweden either. FWIW, I paid 250 euros per semester in Germany, most of which was for the public transport ticket.

Private universities don't exist in Sweden, at least none that offer CS degrees. There are a few MBAs for which one has to pay the full price but they are usually only attended by professionals and charged to their employer.

Same in Poland - all of the best universities in the country are public universities and are free for everyone. Private ones have a reputation for being very very poor and something people sign up for just to get the paper saying they have "a degree". Even then, they cost something like $300/semester so if you really need that paper it's not that expensive.

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#236

Post by tedmiston »

wbillingsley wrote: post #227
tedmiston wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is an outlier in higher education. In the US, $10k is lucky to get you 1 year of in-state tuition and books (excluding room and board) at an average public state school with a CS program. If you go to college in a state different than what you live in, the rates are even higher.

In Australia, bachelors degrees are $15k to $30k, and you don't pay until you have a job. And with the benefits rules, sometimes you can receive more in benefits to enable you to study than the student debt you'll incur. I'm a little surprised US undergraduate tuition manages to stay that high, as it seems it would often be cheaper to migrate to Europe or Australia for the purposes of study (and Australia and Europe…

> and you don't pay until you have a job

Some US student loans work this way with income-based repayment. However there are plenty of gotchas: It only applies to federal loans. Many people with large amounts of school loans > $15k-20k/year for 4-5 years can't actually get this much in federal loans, and also only a subset of what they can get has subsidized interest. I'm not sure whether loan interest continues to accrue normally in the period where payments are reduced. I think this depends on the type of federal loan and there are quite a few. Some are completely unsubsidized (i.e., accrue interest while in school).

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#237

Post by tedmiston »

airza wrote: post #233
tedmiston wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is an outlier in higher education. In the US, $10k is lucky to get you 1 year of in-state tuition and books (excluding room and board) at an average public state school with a CS program. If you go to college in a state different than what you live in, the rates are even higher.

the united states is the outlier here

You're right about this and it took a few international responses to remind me of how messed up college is in the US. It's easy to forget that some countries have it much better off than the norm here.

What's more is the example I used for the US is on the low end.

The average annual tuition (with room and board) from the US Department of Education is $16k public and $42k private [1].

> For the 2014–15 academic year, average annual current dollar prices for undergraduate tuition, fees, room, and board were estimated to be $16,188 at public institutions, $41,970 at private nonprofit institutions, and $23,372 at private for-profit institutions.

What's more jarring is that these numbers are a bit cooked to blend 4-year and 2-year schools whereas most students don't consider community colleges (which grants Associate's degrees vs Bachelor's… I'm not sure if every country has something similar).

The actual average annual numbers in cureent dollars (as of 2014-2015) are $18,632 for 4-year public and $37,990 for 4-year private. For some reason the private numbers blend nonprofit and for-profit private schools whereas a figure excluding for-profit would probably be more accurate.

[1]: https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#238

Post by j_s »

artur_makly wrote: post #42

Bravo! This is overdue. Back in the early 80's my dad ( a chess teacher from Odessa ) immigrated to NYC ( with just $150 ). My mom worked 3 jobs to put him through Yeshiva Uni where he learned Cobol, JCL, and Fortran. He ended up getting hired right away by Lehman Bros, and realized he was sitting on a gold-mine. Tons of well-educated immigrants were coming onto the golden-paved shores, with 0 knowledge of computer p…

This sounds like the perfect opportunity for a documentary project, well beyond just a write-up. What an awesome example to be so close to!

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#239

Post by r0brodz »

austenallred wrote: post #122
r0brodz wrote: post #121

Im 32 and have 4 kids. I would love to excel at this program and reach high coding experience. I really am struggling economicly.

Apply!

Wish I could. I work full time at 12 bucks per hr as a pipefitter helper. I so wish we had basic income or some kind of help so I could do thid. There is nothing more in this planet I want most is to be a computer scientist.

Re: Launch HN: Lambda School (YC S17) – CS education that's free until you get a job

#240

Post by tedmiston »

iomotoko wrote: post #195
tedmiston wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is an outlier in higher education. In the US, $10k is lucky to get you 1 year of in-state tuition and books (excluding room and board) at an average public state school with a CS program. If you go to college in a state different than what you live in, the rates are even higher.

I am quite aware that the situation might be different, I still consider most of my points valid for the US though, for example regarding quality of education provided + that the business seems a little bit "shady" to me. btw: a degree from the University of London (via distance learning, can be done from many parts of the world) is about ~5000£ (~6482$) - again we are talking about flexible payment + great study res…

I see your perspective but also from a US perspective the cost is much lower than a Bachelor's in CS (just to be clear I'm not claiming this is equivalent to a BS). So it is faster, cheaper, and with better repayment terms than one can get from a US university.

Now, a problem dev bootcamp type programs have is lack of accreditation (can't call themselves universities) and lack of curriculum standardization across code schools. In the US, engineering and CS universities have ABET accreditation to solve this problem which sets the model / baseline curriculum for what a BS in CS must cover.

Do the European schools have some sort of curriculum standardization for CS? The larger question I am wondering is if an international CS degree carries the same weight as a domestic one in the US.

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