Live data from Hacker News

It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

adamharkus.com

141–150 of 239 posts

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#141
Glad to see this on here. Really, it's never too late to learn anything, but I can offer context here as I have been playing for 25+ years.

I can say without a doubt that picking up a guitar is one of the best things I've ever done in my life. It is just so rewarding. There are no barriers to your level of achievement. Want to get better? Just play more. In fact, the first thing I do after a bad day at work is pick up my guitar. I know that I have at least something in my day that I can do better at than I could have the day before.

It's also tremendously rewarding to be able to kind of level-up to your heroes. I can play things now that I only dreamed of when I was a kid. Iconic solos and riffs that I thought required some kind of superhuman level of skill. Turns out it just takes a lot of practice. The difference being that those heroes wrote those solos in their early twenties, while I'm merely mimicking them in my late thirties. But I still get to hear those sounds coming out of my amp, created by my fingers.

What other hobby or activity could offer that? Most of us could spend 12 hrs a day in the driveway shooting hoops but could never even dream being the worst player in the NBA.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#142
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the bad habits starting out on an acoustic teaches?

Sure, the one I was thinking about is a tendency to strum really really hard, and you would think this would be an easy habit to break, but it is surprisingly difficult.

I don't think of hitting the strings hard as a "bad habit" in and of itself. Being able to play with a broad dynamic range is very useful, but not necessary to have fun and make good music.

I remember seeing a Paul Gilbert instruction video a while back where he talked about the importance of being able to play a single note, while hitting it with a full on rock and roll windmill arms technique. This is mostly a matter of muting the other five strings effectively. But hitting a note like you mean it really matters.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#143

If you are interested in learning /music/ and not just learning the /guitar/, I would strongly encourage you to start on the piano. I started on the piano and moved to the guitar later, and I've now realised that the piano gives you such a good musical grounding, so much better than the guitar can. There's nothing quite like having it all laid out in front of you. It's the only way that things like sharps and flats m…

I've taken lessons when I was in kindergarten and when I was in High school, but it has never been an easy instrument to learn. I'd say piano/keyboard easier than violin, but much much harder than a guitar. The 10,000 hours might not be enough to master piano, if you're starting as an adult beginner. However, you can definitely learn to play chords and simple melodies on piano. One thing to note, if you are a developer/programmer, be careful as piano has the same risk of getting carpel tunnel syndrome, so consider the ergonomics, and also don't overplay on piano. PS: I wish there was an ergonomic piano.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#144
I started guitar in my mid forties.

Four years later, I've reached the point where (some) non-musicians are envious, and actual musicians categorize my sounds as “music” more often than not.

There's lot of great advice on this thread. (Especially about deliberate practice; and about avoiding instruments so cheap they'll just increase the difficulty while making you sound worse than you are.) I'll fill in a few notes from my own journey. YMMV.

Choosing a guitar:

* Steel string is hell on the fingers for a beginner. It is effective altitude training for nylon and electric. I love the tone and I'm really glad I started with steel string. However, had I known how hard it would be, I don't know that I'd have advised myself to start with it.

* Electric is easy-peasy (callus- and finger-strength-wise). I think a decent electric is cheaper than a decent acoustic too. Con: (1) you're less likely to pick up the instrument for two minutes of spontaneous practice when you walk past it on its stand. (I've probably got a lot of practice in from two minutes that turned into fifteen that turned into fifty.) (2) If you're a unmusical nerd like me, it's easy to get distracted from the hard work of making cleaning notes, by the comfort zone of playing with electronics.

* Nylon (classical) is easier on the fingers than steel but more difficult than electric. It might represent a happy medium between beginner fingers and practice activation energy, even if you don't play classical. Beware: new nylon needs to be tuned again every five minutes. After a month, it finishes stretching out, and holds its tuning about as well as steel.

* You can play any style of music on any guitar, except: (1) you can't really bend (a blues staple technique) a nylon string; (2) electric guitars have much greater sustain than any acoustic guitar: if the music you want to play sounds more like a violin or voice (sustained, tonal) than like a piano (percussive), you need an electric; (3) let's not talk about slide.

* What everyone else says about too cheap a guitar (or, “guitar-shaped instruments”, such as acoustics available for Decide whether you want to strum (harmony) or play individual notes (melody, or “lead”; also most of classical). These are almost different instruments. (For the beginner. A lot of melody is playing off of chord shape hand posiitons; and, coming from the other direction, embellished chords get to sound a lot like lead.) If accompanying (you sing or play harmonica, or can play with in a band), strumming is a valuable contribution. If you're playing solo, you probably need to play lead in order to have music that can stand its own.

Decide whether you want to play with a pick or finger style. It's easier to be loud with a pick, and it's especially easy to be loud strumming with a pick. If you're playing acoustic with a band, this may matter to you. Classical, on the other hand, is always finger style. Otherwise, don't make too much of this decision – there's a fair bit of technique to each, but most of what you need learn as a beginner applies to both, and if you continue with guitar you'll probably want both under your belt anyway. Just find some musicians or music that you want to sound like, and do what they do.

Choosing a learning style. Try each of the following; see which one(s) seem effective for you.

* Learn from an instructor. If this is how you learn best and you have funds and access, find someone you can trust, and then ignore everything else I've written.

* Play by ear. Listen to something, try to make your guitar sound like that. Many of today's older guitarists wore out vinyl records this way. Man I wish I could learn this way.

* Jam with friends. This may work if you're musically talented (I'm not), and/or coming from another instrument. Ditto.

* Learn by watching. Watch people's fingers, do what they do. If this is your learning style, YouTube is the golden age. My pseudo-science theory is that if you're good at learning from watching (e.g. sports, dance, watching people's hand motions when they sew, cook, juggle, drive, etc.), maybe you have a well-functioning mirror neuron system and this will work well for you. Yet another style I aspire to but suck at.

* Play from tab. Learn to play tab, and get some pieces under your belt. I kind of feel like this is the least-musician-y thing to do, but it matches my strengths so much better than the others that I went with this. At this point the road forks: (1) Classical: now learn the (newer!) standard staff, and leave tab behind – that was your starting wheels. (2) Folk/pop/rock/etc.

* Play from standard notation. This is really only used in classical repertoire. Even for classical, tab (which is the older notation) is still easier as a stepping stone, and has the advantage of building in performance notes about fingering, but if you're working with an instructor or you're not going to be put off by learning several hard things at once, then skipping tab gets you to the endpoint more directly.

* Play from chord diagrams or lead sheets. This is good for strumming (harmony). I'm not a strummer; don't have much to say here.

Practice:

* “What you do is what you do every day.” 15 minutes / day beats two hours once a week

* “The journey is the reward.” Find a way to enjoy the practice itself.

* Allocate some time each day for (1) skills, (2) repertoire, (3) noodling around. When you're starting, you won't have any repertoire (2), and there may not be much distinction between (1) and (3) (“I'm just trying to get any single note to sound clean.)

* At any particular point, have one or more skills you're working on. I've iterated through: play without fret buzz, use each finger without fret buzz, finger adjacent strings, finger non-adjacent strings, chromatic scales, blues scales, various chords, various chord alternations, making a barre, hammer-ons and pull-offs with various fingers, flat picking at tempo, flat picking alternate strings at tempo, finger picking a chord, bending a note, banjo rolls. Spend fifteen minutes a day on each active skill. (Exception: when you're starting, you may only have strength or callus for five minutes. “It's a marathon not a sprint.”) I probably spent fifteen minutes a day on barre for a week or two before hearing anything that even vaguely resembled success; eventually, it locked in.

* Learn to play at higher tempo by (1) playing as fast as you can with zero errors. Drop the pace until you can do this. There's a theory that you can learn even faster by (2) playing even faster, with errors, so long as you also do (1). This has worked for me.

* Some great musicians swear by practicing with metronomes; some advocate doing without them so that you develop your own sense of rhythm. If the latter, record yourself and play it back against a metronome, so you can tell if your tempo is as good as you think is is.

* Isolate and repeat difficult sections. Spend a minute, or five, or fifteen, on the smallest problematic section (maybe a single chord, or chord alternation, or four notes from a melody); don't play the whole piece and only hit the problem spot every few minutes.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#145
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the acoustic is hard to play, get it "setup" buy someone that knows what they are doing. Usually the action is high (which forces you to grip harder), which can be fixed. If there is a bit of buzz in the neck, there should a be a truss rod in the neck to adjust, or raise the action just a bit. If you have an old guitar that hasn't been adjusted in a long time, you might need to do it again. Kind of like getting a…

Yes, but fixing the action involves fairly permanent alterations to the guitar, the fact that setup requires an expert is yet another reason I don't think acoustics are a great place to start for beginners.

You're lumping all acoustics into the same category. You can can certainly have a horrible learning experience on an electric guitar, due to poor quality / action / setup.

And you can have a great learning experience on an acoustic. There are a number of advantages in terms of learning on an acoustic:

1. It's portable - you can take it anywhere

2. You can easily hear it without headphones or an amp

3. Well suited for chords and melodies (typically the first things you learn)

4. Slightly heavier strings means that your fingers get stronger, and playing an electric guitar later on will seem much easier

5. Great for collaborative learning, easier to play with other people

6. Light weight compared to most electric guitars

7. Acoustic guitar "covers" of popular music (eg. Bieber etc.) are a "thing" all over YouTube and make it easy to learn songs people will recognize

8. If you appreciate classic rock, folk, blues and 90s alternative, these genres are typically chord-based, and easy to learn on acoustic too. Any Beatles song. Nirvana unplugged. Think Layla electric vs. Layla unplugged.

9. Fingerstyle is very rewarding. Eventually you might even get as good as Tommy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPkQn5nDTZs

Acoustic is a great way to get started, and learn, and most importantly a great way to develop GOOD habits.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#146
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

tldr: buy a guitar whose neck fits the size of your hands. Excellent points by @beat. One other aspect for new guitarist is neck size: if you have small hands buying a guitar with a 'baseball bat' style rounded neck makes it very hard to play barre chords and difficult stretched chords. Conversely large hands and fingers need a longer fret board and deeper neck.

I'm not convinced that small hands need a small neck, or that big hands need a big neck. It's all about what feels comfortable to you. A tradeoff I've noticed is "fast" versus comfortable. Fatter necks tend to be more comfortable to play, as are necks with more pronounced fretboard radius (like vintage-style Fender necks). Flatter, thinner necks are easier to play faster on, but make my hands sore after a while.

I was referring to the beginners dilemma, not accomplished players. I used to teach guitar long ago last century, and it was amazing how many people showed up with necks they couldn't get their hand around comfortably. When you are starting out the basic physics and mechanics of pressing down on strings and snapping into chord shapes seems impossible - having a neck that is a sympathetic shape to the arc of your thumb to first finger/hand, frets that fall to your finger size, and probably most critical a fretboard width that works with your fingertip size can make a big difference. Your hand gets sore on a flatter, thinner neck because you are using way more hand muscle strength. For a beginner who doesn't have that muscle memory or strength, this equals impossible. Once you get some basic motor skills down through practice a whole new world opens up and all the different playing qualities of playing different style s of guitar open up.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#147

Here's my $0.02: Learn barre chords straight away. Don't waste your time learning all the open chord songs you can before you jump in. Jump right into it. Open chords will be easy down the road. Training your hand to barre strings with one finger, while moving the rest independently, is the most challenging, and the most rewarding thing to learn. It opens up so many doors to your playing.

Wow, I wish I had known before I started learning. Moving up and down the fret with barre chord is cool and easy once it is mastered. However, Barre chord is also the hard to learn to play, requiring a lot of finger contortion, and also probably most painful for players as the finger presses down on all 6 strings. A lot of beginners either skip or avoid barre like the plague. I've found that it is easier to do barre…

I hardly ever play full barre chords. I can, but I don't. (I was subjected to practicing all the CAGED chord shapes as barres in circle of fifths up the neck, which is great for the hands and the brain.) I don't like the sound of six-string chords generally. So I mostly chord two or three strings at a time, and move what's getting picked from strum to strum to mix the low and high notes. It's much more dynamic and interesting, and sounds a lot less cluttered. But that's me.

The result is that my barres are lazy. Since I'm only trying to get three notes at most to ring clearly at once, I'm just muting the rest, which is a lot less effort. Muting technique is everything!

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#148
post #50

I learned to play guitar as a kid, played some classical and jazz as a teenager and in my twenties, then put it down. I have a nice classical guitar sitting in my closet for a decade. My problem is that although I can read music, understand some theory, can play chords and even some can play a little bit of complex music like Villa Lobos, I have absolutely no "ear". I can't even tune the guitar without help. So this…

I'd highly recommend the "singing against a drone" exercises in "the harmonic experience" by W.A. Mathieu. You can do them with an acoustic guitar, and they will improve your ear immensely. The first exercise is simple: singing exactly in tune with an open string.

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#149
post #41

As someone who has been playing for 35 years or so, here are some observations... First and foremost, guitar is a pretty straightforward instrument for beginners. There's a reason it's the most popular instrument in the world. If you put in the effort, you can be playing something musical in a few months, and proficient in basic folk/rock music in a couple of years. It doesn't take "talent". It just takes effort. Som…

The big thing that's been driving me away from learning is the necessary hardware/Software to create the tones I want. Rather than folk/rock, I'd like something like the ghostly effect of https://youtu.be/mP194XwD2Wc . But audio hardware is expensive and isn't something I can directly research. I made a little jump a month ago and got a condensor mic and a Scarlett Solo mixer, which can do both XLR mic and 1/4 Jack f…

You probably want Bias FX. It's designed specifically for guitar processing and is very easy to use. The standard version costs $79 and there's a 30 day free trial.

https://www.positivegrid.com/bias-fx/

Re: It's Never Too Late to Learn Guitar

#150
post #51

Can't you ditch all of that and use one of these cool new programs where they show you where to play on the guitar, you play in there, and the mic detects if you played correctly then proceeding with the next note? I think RockSmith is one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaHsqGSetVo I think there are others that might look more pedagogical.

The best "app" I've tried is a digital recorder and a metronome.

My process: Play slowly until you think you've nailed it. Listen to the recording, realize you didn't. Fix the parts that sound bad. Repeat until you actually nail it. Increase the metronome by 10%. Repeat until you're slightly faster than performance speed. Back off and playing at performance speed will sbe easy.

Post reply on HN