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Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

economist.com

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Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#111

Post by chrischen »

ghaff wrote: post #72
chrischen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're losing money because that's a ridiculously expensive price and people looking to just get from point A to B would not pay that.

So they should cut their prices and lose even more money? The basic problem is that outside of the Northeast Corridor--which is very popular, profitable, and getting new infrastructure investment--there are very few city pairs in the US that have the right combination of density and distance. Effectively the Northeast Corridor makes all the money that Amtrak then loses in the rest of the country. This is a few years…

Sometimes something is just obsolete. Their uncompetitive price reflects that.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#112

Post by ghaff »

chrischen wrote: post #111
ghaff wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they should cut their prices and lose even more money? The basic problem is that outside of the Northeast Corridor--which is very popular, profitable, and getting new infrastructure investment--there are very few city pairs in the US that have the right combination of density and distance. Effectively the Northeast Corridor makes all the money that Amtrak then loses in the rest of the country. This is a few years…

Sometimes something is just obsolete. Their uncompetitive price reflects that.

Yes. But, it's not politically tenable to simply shut down rail service in the US outside of the Northeast Corridor. (Nor is it obvious that would be a good decision at a national level for many reasons.)

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#113

Post by MagnumOpus »

ColinWright wrote: post #98
toyg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> around £50 each way booking a few weeks in advance Man, how many of those £50 tickets are actually available? A train from Manchester to London, which is less than half the distance, costs twice as much on a lucky day (and 3x on the same day, if not more).

I just ran this search for MAN -> EUS on 2017/08/23 leaving after 10:00. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/MAN/Lond... I got this result: Dep 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly [MAN] Platform 7 Arr 13:20 London Euston [EUS] Platform 3 Duration: 2h 05m Changes : 0 cheapest fare Single Fare £27.00 Services at 10:15, 10:35, and 10:55 are £38.00. Yes, tickets for travel on Monday are over £80, but the poster w…

> I've reduced my annual train fares bills from over 11k to under 6k

That is nice for you, but neither of these numbers is something that National Rail can pride itself on. In Germany for instance, a "Bahncard 100" that lets you travel everywhere anytime without pre-booking costs about £3.5k - and in addition, you save the dozens or hundreds of hours spent "hacking" the fares to get screwed ever so slightly less...

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#115

Post by matthewowen »

et-al wrote: post #101
matthewowen wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine that you aren't staying at a friend's house, but rather at a hotel or AirBnB. Avoiding paying for one extra night instantly saves you money. And if you don't expect to do much the night you arrive anyway, there's no real cost (plus you don't have to leave work early, which may be advantageous).

I think in that case, I'd rather take an early morning flight like sologoub mentioned. And like dopeboy pointed out, if this was $100 RT, it would appeal to price sensitive people. And regardless of how comfortable they make it, for many of us in the States, it's still an 8-hour bus ride.

An SF flight that gets you to LA by 9am realistically requires you to leave the house around 6am: wheels down at 8:30am, wheels up at 7:30am, boarding at 7am (if you want space for yr hand luggage), arrive at the airport by 6:30am, leave the house at 6am. And those are fairly aggressive timings IMO.

I want to try this service, because if the sleep is really bad then I agree that it's no use. But if it's even close to comparable to taking a sleeper train, I'd much prefer it: I've always slept well on those, and I'd much sooner not have the 5am start.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#116

Post by ColinWright »

MagnumOpus wrote: post #113
ColinWright wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just ran this search for MAN -> EUS on 2017/08/23 leaving after 10:00. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/MAN/Lond... I got this result: Dep 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly [MAN] Platform 7 Arr 13:20 London Euston [EUS] Platform 3 Duration: 2h 05m Changes : 0 cheapest fare Single Fare £27.00 Services at 10:15, 10:35, and 10:55 are £38.00. Yes, tickets for travel on Monday are over £80, but the poster w…

> I've reduced my annual train fares bills from over 11k to under 6k That is nice for you, but neither of these numbers is something that National Rail can pride itself on. In Germany for instance, a "Bahncard 100" that lets you travel everywhere anytime without pre-booking costs about £3.5k - and in addition, you save the dozens or hundreds of hours spent "hacking" the fares to get screwed ever so slightly less...

I'm not defending the UK fare system - it's appalling - and I'm not saying the fares are reasonable - they're not. I'm just replying to the person who sounded astonished about the existence of a £50 fare each way to EDB, claiming that MAN-EUS was significantly more.

It's not (or doesn't have to be) and I provided evidence. So you're replying to the wrong indignation.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#117

Post by toyg »

ColinWright wrote: post #98
toyg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> around £50 each way booking a few weeks in advance Man, how many of those £50 tickets are actually available? A train from Manchester to London, which is less than half the distance, costs twice as much on a lucky day (and 3x on the same day, if not more).

I just ran this search for MAN -> EUS on 2017/08/23 leaving after 10:00. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/MAN/Lond... I got this result: Dep 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly [MAN] Platform 7 Arr 13:20 London Euston [EUS] Platform 3 Duration: 2h 05m Changes : 0 cheapest fare Single Fare £27.00 Services at 10:15, 10:35, and 10:55 are £38.00. Yes, tickets for travel on Monday are over £80, but the poster w…

Neither of those options are realistic for anybody who actually, y'know, works. The overhwelming majority of passengers will get much, much higher fares.

E.g. 7am MAN-EUS on 23/08: £112

And having to mess around with split fares like I had to reach Singapore, is appalling (is that even the same train? Do I really have to change train to get from the 2nd largest city to the capital? Is this Peru...?).

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#118

Post by ColinWright »

toyg wrote: post #117
ColinWright wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just ran this search for MAN -> EUS on 2017/08/23 leaving after 10:00. http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/MAN/Lond... I got this result: Dep 11:15 Manchester Piccadilly [MAN] Platform 7 Arr 13:20 London Euston [EUS] Platform 3 Duration: 2h 05m Changes : 0 cheapest fare Single Fare £27.00 Services at 10:15, 10:35, and 10:55 are £38.00. Yes, tickets for travel on Monday are over £80, but the poster w…

Neither of those options are realistic for anybody who actually, y'know, works . The overhwelming majority of passengers will get much, much higher fares. E.g. 7am MAN-EUS on 23/08: £112 And having to mess around with split fares like I had to reach Singapore, is appalling (is that even the same train? Do I really have to change train to get from the 2nd largest city to the capital? Is this Peru...?).

It sounds to me like you simply want to be outraged about the fares. And that's fine, the fares are, quite honestly, appalling. All I'm doing is pointing out that if you really are so angry then perhaps it's worth spending a little time, taking slightly less convenient journey, and cutting your expenditure in half. Or better:

    MAN CRE 06:00 06:37 £13.60 Anytime
    CRE EUS 06:52 09:37 £22.00 Advance
    Total: £35.60
For reference, I do, you know, work, and I've worked out how to work on the train and take advantage of fare combinations like this.

If you choose not to, and choose to just take the existing fares and services and pay the premium then that's your choice. By all means, feel free to do so and to be angry about the system.

And being angry about the system (or systems, to include things like the trains in Singapore) is quite reasonable. But it doesn't achieve much. Personally, I turn to the machine and create tools to shift the cost/convenience balance to be more in my favour.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#119

Post by et-al »

matthewowen wrote: post #115
et-al wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in that case, I'd rather take an early morning flight like sologoub mentioned. And like dopeboy pointed out, if this was $100 RT, it would appeal to price sensitive people. And regardless of how comfortable they make it, for many of us in the States, it's still an 8-hour bus ride.

An SF flight that gets you to LA by 9am realistically requires you to leave the house around 6am: wheels down at 8:30am, wheels up at 7:30am, boarding at 7am (if you want space for yr hand luggage), arrive at the airport by 6:30am, leave the house at 6am. And those are fairly aggressive timings IMO. I want to try this service, because if the sleep is really bad then I agree that it's no use. But if it's even close to…

Few days late, sorry. Just wanted to say those are all good points. If it's comparable to a sleeper train, like you mentioned, I agree that it could be a feasible option.
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