Not only old news as suggested in other comments, but not hard to do either; IIRC, this was done 1 or 2 DEF CONs ago, not only for GPS, but also for older systems that use radio beacons (Aircraft? not sure..) and A-GPS (spoofing GSM radios).
Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
51–60 of 78 posts
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#52We may soon see 'inertial navigation system (INS)' to supplement GPS.
I wonder if the cost of producing/maintaining it could be lowered significantly enough using new sensors developed for use in smartphones and such.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
Speaking of which, are RLGs actually difficult to manufacture or is the military intentionally stopping them from getting into civilian hands? Even the best cell phone sensor fusion seems to result in an obnoxiously shitty map experience.
Phones use MEMS sensors, which are much cheaper than laser gyros. I'm not sure if google maps uses the accelerometer, or just the GPS and compass. In my experience, phone maps work well if the device has a good GPS signal. It's just the compass that gives a shitty experience. I wish google would ignore the compass and just use GPS direction when you're moving. They used to do this, but now they seem to rely in the in…
> Phones use MEMS sensors, which are much cheaper than laser gyros
Yes, but why? To my surface-level understanding, RLGs sound like they would be easier to integrate.
> It's just the compass that gives a shitty experience.
Yep, that's my experience too, and that's why I'd be ecstatic to hear that the compass was being replaced by a RLG (which could be re-locked to true North every time GPS got a decent movement vector).
Then again, I half suspect that something is FUBAR'din the current compass stack. I have one of those fluxgate-magnetometer current probes at work and can report that everywhere I've used it I have seen magnetic field vary as a high-SNR continuous function of direction, yet my phone's maps app has a ton of lag, hysteresis, and jankiness when rotating in the same damn field. Maybe we just need to wait for the cheap compasses to get better.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#54The takeaway I get from this is that whenever the Kremlin is attacked, they'd rather the nearby Airports take the hit. I guess then no one will leave, and no one will come in.
Isn't it the other way? You're in your garden in Moscow but the GPS says you're thr airport. A missile heading for the airport will think "I'm on target!" as it lands on your head.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#55Time to break out from storage: sextant, compass, paper map, ...
The Navy was a couple years ahead of you, they've already started training officers to navigate by non-electric means: http://www.npr.org/2016/02/22/467210492/u-s-navy-brings-back... .
The fact that they stopped at all astonishes me. In a military context, it's certainly conceivable that a ship would take some kind of battle damage that would disable its electronic nav systems.
Middies also used to learn how to sail with canvas, did they stop that, too?
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#56Typical Americans. Tomorrow they will write that Russia is a third world gasoline-station-country without any technology or weapons with dumb people and is unable for anything. Pure cognitive dissonance.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#57This is fairly old news. Reports are a year or two old and suggest that Russian security uses GPS spoofing anywhere V. Putin may be located, presumably as a defense against drone type attacks or surveillance. The spoofed location is often an airport. The black sea spoofing could be related to a visit to e.g., Sochi. Alternatively Russia could be deploying the spoofers on ships now, which would seem to have offensive…
Can attest this. Area near Kremlin is spoofed to Vnukovo airport for several years already. There were reports about putin's dacha spoofed to the nearest aiport too. I really do not know about reasons and efficacy. Professional grade multi-gnss receivers can easily filter this crap out, at least they could 5 years ago...
It is probably made against civilian drones. Otherwise there would be a lot of people flying over Kremlin just for fun and annoying security guards.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds like a semi-reliable Putin Detector could be set up if you wanted to...
It would also be fairly short-lived in battle, since the spoofer is broadcasting its own location in a highly accurate "place ordnance here" manner.
More likely it is broadcasting the position of the satellite it is spoofing, with altered timing.
edit: that doesn't prevent other means of locating the source of an rf signal
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#59I guess we could go back to navigating by the stars. Alternatively we could go back to using LORAN... way less expensive than satellites and more robust with modern micro controller technology. With their output power they would be hard to scramble the frequencies by wattage output flooding on the same frequency. If they also used timed frequency hopping they could further protect it.
Re: Ships fooled in GPS spoofing attack suggest Russian cyberweapon
#60You don't just need signing, because that can be replayed. You need distance bounding protocols to stop replay, but that requires interactive communication.