The truth about cold water • Hacker News Board

Re: The truth about cold water

#21

Post by c1sc0 » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 11:24 AM UTC

lkozma wrote: post #11

I wonder if people who have training with cold water resist significantly longer. I knew Finns who would go in mid January to swim for ten minutes in a hole cut in the ice of a frozen lake, then sit around for a while, dress up and go on with their day. And that was without sauna.

There is certainly an amazing amount of adaptation going on when you start swimming in cold water. Swimming short amounts of time (10 mins) in cold water can be done safely with proper training & supervision. You can definitely learn to control or reduce the initial cold shock reflex (gasping for breath).

Re: The truth about cold water

#22

Post by c1sc0 » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 11:25 AM UTC

pclark wrote: post #18

So the advice to survive in cold water: wear a life jacket?

wear a wetsuit

Re: The truth about cold water

#23

Post by gaius » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 11:57 AM UTC

TGJ wrote: post #4

A very good article that shows some perceived misconceptions about cold water survival. I spent 4 years on 20 different large marine seismic exploration boats with most of them operating in the North Sea. I have taken 3 North Sea Survival courses and a many safety meetings for good measure. Every person that I have worked with has been well aware of the consequences of falling overboard in water barely above freezing…

The best way to warm someone up with hypothermia is for someone to get into a sleeping bag with them.

I've done the sea survival training for offshore racecrew and it's the same: you're in your suit, wearing a lifejacket and harness, and attached to a jackstay. There are radio tags you can get now, about the size of a matchbox, you wear one and if it goes out of range of the basestation a MOB alarm goes off. Clever, but at night, in rough seas, making 10 kts, you're still in a LOT of trouble.

Re: The truth about cold water

#24

Post by cromulent » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:06 PM UTC

jokull wrote: post #17

There's an Icelandic legend that beat all this crap in 1984. His ship sank with all his friends and co-workers. He swam to shore, walked bare feet on razor sharp lava and walked to town. Guðlaugur Friðþórsson. His descriptions are chilling. "When the ship sank from underneath us and we were submerged for the second time we decided [the three of us] to swim. We decided not to help each other which would have been hope…

Apparently he survived because he was fat.

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rYIJJP7audkC&pg=PA26...

Re: The truth about cold water

#25

Post by tomjen3 » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:16 PM UTC

pclark wrote: post #18

So the advice to survive in cold water: wear a life jacket?

Absolutely (though it may not be enough), but not just for the reasons you think: a life jacket will keep the back of your head out of the water - which will help prevent damage to the brain.

You don't want to know where this research comes from, believe me.

Re: The truth about cold water

#26

Post by avar » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:46 PM UTC

jokull wrote: post #17

There's an Icelandic legend that beat all this crap in 1984. His ship sank with all his friends and co-workers. He swam to shore, walked bare feet on razor sharp lava and walked to town. Guðlaugur Friðþórsson. His descriptions are chilling. "When the ship sank from underneath us and we were submerged for the second time we decided [the three of us] to swim. We decided not to help each other which would have been hope…

"Múkki" isn't an imagined sailor's friend. It's the Northern Fulmar, an abundant sea bird. He was talking to the birds he saw overhead to pass the time.

Re: The truth about cold water

#27

Post by avar » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 1:06 PM UTC

cromulent wrote: post #24

jokull wrote: post #17

There's an Icelandic legend that beat all this crap in 1984. His ship sank with all his friends and co-workers. He swam to shore, walked bare feet on razor sharp lava and walked to town. Guðlaugur Friðþórsson. His descriptions are chilling. "When the ship sank from underneath us and we were submerged for the second time we decided [the three of us] to swim. We decided not to help each other which would have been hope…

Apparently he survived because he was fat. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rYIJJP7audkC&pg=PA26...

I can't find a citation for this now, but I recall reading somewhere that he had a higher ratio of brown fat than is normal. I.e. just being fat isn't enough, it has to be the right sort of fat.

Re: The truth about cold water

#28

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 1:08 PM UTC

jokull wrote: post #17

There's an Icelandic legend that beat all this crap in 1984. His ship sank with all his friends and co-workers. He swam to shore, walked bare feet on razor sharp lava and walked to town. Guðlaugur Friðþórsson. His descriptions are chilling. "When the ship sank from underneath us and we were submerged for the second time we decided [the three of us] to swim. We decided not to help each other which would have been hope…

[deleted]

Re: The truth about cold water

#29

Post by rm-rf » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 1:13 PM UTC

brazzy wrote: post #15

sliverstorm wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another problem arises when you are rescued as he points out, but the stories I have heard are about the survivors being put in showers to raise their body temperature back up and collapsing and drowning in a puddle of water in the shower. This problem shouldn't even be a problem, you shouldn't leave them alone when they are recovering! Well, IMHO.

It's still a problem, because raising the body temperature quickly can be dangerous in itself. To preserve core temperature, the body centralizes circulation, i.e. circulates blood only through the vital organs. If you're warmed up suddenly, it can cause this centralization to end prematurely, mixing still-too-cold blood from your extremities with the core blood and dropping your core temperature suddenly and fatally…

I had something like this happen - except for the 'fatally' part of course.

I was in a canoe race on a cold spring day in cold water. At the beginning of the race I ended up jumping into the river in waste deep water. My jeans stayed wet the whole race. My legs were cold wet and immobile for over an hour while my upper body was 'working out' paddling the canoe.

All was good until the race ended. I got out of the canoe to walk the 1/2 mile back home. As soon as I started walking I felt the cold blood from my legs rush up to my torso & started seriously shivering. Continuing to walk made it worse. Made it home anyway & collapsed under a hot shower. I felt at the time that if I'd have tried to walk much further I'd have had a real bad day.

Re: The truth about cold water

#30

Post by Loy » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 1:20 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #27

cromulent wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently he survived because he was fat. http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rYIJJP7audkC&pg=PA26...

I can't find a citation for this now, but I recall reading somewhere that he had a higher ratio of brown fat than is normal. I.e. just being fat isn't enough, it has to be the right sort of fat.

http://www.vikingrune.com/2009/03/true-viking-grit/

However, a startling fact was discovered by the researchers from the University of Iceland: Guðlaugur’s fat is almost like seal fat. It is more solid and two or three times thicker than human fat.