Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble • Hacker News Board

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#291

Post by amirmc » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 8:56 AM UTC

jeff_marshall wrote: post #252

x0x0 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, those are all policy choices we made. Policy choices that - encouraged capital mobility - tax advantaged capital vs labor - gave an ever larger share of the national income to the ultra rich - to not enforce regulations against allowing unlimited supply of taxi cabs. - to subsidize walmart to the tune of $6.2B in 2013 [1] - to bail out banks and screw mortgage holders - to allow banks to get so large they implici…

>No, those are all policy choices we made. Who is "we"? I doubt it. I certainly don't recall being asked, and I'm in a privileged position, relatively speaking. I'd be curious to see how I could participate in the current environment.

> I'd be curious to see how I could participate in the current environment.

It's the political process. Although many tech people I've met seem allergic to doing anything that seems like 'politics'.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#292

Post by wojcikstefan » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 8:59 AM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #159

tylerjwilk00 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're still not quite getting it. If people have to choose between going into debt from a finance charge or starving on the street with no roof over their head they will choose the former. It's not about financial education it's about hard choices of the underprivileged.

I'm not talking about starving on the street, I'm talking about everybody in US using credit cards for payments and repay. I'm talking about shops offering their own credit cards. You know when US people use their credit card? Every day. You know when Europeans use their credit card? When abroad. And our credit gets instantly paid by our normal bank account. For us, a credit card is the same as a debit card but with…

I'm afraid that's too strong of a generalization. I'm a European and I use my credit card daily (and getting a great value out of the benefits it provides).

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#293

Post by threatofrain » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:17 AM UTC

R_haterade wrote: post #36

bmwe30is wrote: post #30

>Some are rooted, embedded in their communities; and some are trapped — because housing is unaffordable where the better paying jobs are. And the jobs that are high paying are not the jobs they built their lives on. There's some texture and nuance to this statement. I remember on NPR, they interviewed a lady whom mentioned similar sentiments; her and her husband had built a family, worked in the blue-collar industry…

>That last part bothers me a lot. It seems a lot of people just don't want to move. Anecdotally I've moved nearly 6 times in the last 8 years. My parents have done the same. How do we build any kind of community with so little permanence? If we can't bond with our neighbors, we become these empty, atomized husks floating from one economic opportunity to another. Put another way, how can a village raise a child if the…

Non-centralized churches are interesting. They are institutions that generally rely on community funding. They have the potential to easily last beyond any one person's lifespan, hopefully many generations. They are places where people meet not only for religious purposes, but also to gather, chat, and eat.

They are places where new parents trade knowledge and assistance. They are places where young people contribute their physical labor and tutoring abilities. Some churches directly provide daycare and tutoring services. Religious leaders often take on many hats, one of which is counselor to young people.

But how do you create churches without religious glue?

Or, how about even more basically, how do you convince people that it's worth building more publicly funded community meeting spaces for young and old, such as parks?

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#294

Post by unknown_apostle » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:42 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #217

unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

It's interesting that you identify ultra efficient hyper capitalism as the problem, then point the finger at Wall Street traders betting on mortgage backed securities. They really have nothing to do with each other. To the extent you can blame anyone for ultra efficient hyper capitalism, blame programmers. It's programmers that allowed Uber to turn the inefficient and leisurely taxi industry into the Uber/Lyft rat ra…

No I just contrast them.

One group is subjected to ultra efficient capitalism.

Another group can benefit from a myriad of complex tax breaks, government deals, revolving door relationships between legislation and business, ZIRP, NIRP and when things get really dangerous for them: outright bailouts.

Not all mega-corps depend on all of these unfair perks. I actually have a rather positive view of SV and the tech sector. They derived huge benefits from ultra loose monetary policy over the last few years (Amazon included), but they also do some genuinely great stuff.

That's why I said it goes way beyond the tech bubble.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#295

Post by Micoloth » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:53 AM UTC

nicky0 wrote: post #274

isostatic wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand I was listening to a podcast when I popped into boots to buy lunch. Fairly busy so there was a queue, I drew the short straw and got directed to the legacy kiosk. This means having to pause what I was listening too, lose concentration, and switch into conversation mode for no benefit at all. Ikea is simply far easier to self-scan. Back in the olden days you could scan your shopping in the supermarke…

Poor you having to interact with your environment and acknowledge briefly another human being. Perhaps we can invent an app for this.

While your comment is hilarious, i still think if cashiers at supermarkets weren't a thing that would make for a MORE enjoyable and healthy environement to interact with our peers

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#296

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:56 AM UTC

sien wrote: post #233

ams6110 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. You can probably get a job most anyplace that actually has employers who need programmers, but you'll find starting bonus and moving expenses are limited to major tech areas and employers. Where I live there's a university that employs a lot of tech folks, and several private tech companies, but nobody pays for relocation, and salaries are $50K - $100K or maybe a little more at the very top end. A good real…

Not to mention a good accountant, good lawyer, decent optometrist, decent dentist, decent doctor. Not only do lots of those jobs pay better than tech jobs in most places you can also live more easily in cheap, nice places where a nice house can be had for less than 300K. And their jobs are much, much harder to offshore. It's interesting how there is this great push to get people to code, pushed by politicians who are…

[deleted]

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#297

Post by threatofrain » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 9:58 AM UTC

jventura wrote: post #285

pdog wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To the extent you can blame anyone for ultra efficient hyper capitalism, blame programmers. This is as ridiculous as blaming serfs for the feudal system. You're conflating a symptom with the root cause.

I agree with you but I would say that programmers are not the problem but are the "technical" part of it..

Without programmers, businesses still have the gamut of other control and efficiency professionals at their disposal -- mathematicians, statisticians, business psychologists, lawyers, accountants, and so on.

Workers have been squeezed for all time, with or without programmers.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#298

Post by tonybaker » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 10:22 AM UTC

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Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#299

Post by logicchains » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 10:28 AM UTC

nether wrote: post #136

bmwe30is wrote: post #30

>Some are rooted, embedded in their communities; and some are trapped — because housing is unaffordable where the better paying jobs are. And the jobs that are high paying are not the jobs they built their lives on. There's some texture and nuance to this statement. I remember on NPR, they interviewed a lady whom mentioned similar sentiments; her and her husband had built a family, worked in the blue-collar industry…

These people don't want to move because they value community and social support over economics. This attitude is baffling to HN because it defies quantifiable metrics unlike money. Seeing everything as an economic problem is the essence of greed.

And people who expect others to pay for them to have the "community" they want (pay to support them living without jobs because there are no jobs they can do in that area) are not greedy? If Jane works hard to move to the city and do something others value enough to pay for, why should she have to support Jo staying back in their hometown because Jo doesn't want to experience the hardship of moving?

In my experience, people who call others greedy are expecting others to do something for them while giving nothing back in return. Economics means A gives B something B wants in exchange for B giving A something A wants. People who oppose this seem to think that A should give B something without B giving anything back in return.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#300

Post by jpttsn » Sun, Aug 13, 2017, 10:43 AM UTC

vmware513 wrote: post #281

unknown_apostle wrote: post #60

Working class people are being subjected to ultra efficient hypercapitalism, as in Uber drivers discovering they worked for free when they need to purchase a new car. Meanwhile Wall Street has been bailed out 2 times in the last 15 years alone with monetary policy. How many people went to jail? (And they haven’t learned a thing, on the contrary and quite spectacularly so.) If you want to know where the tech bubble co…

Do you guys think, maybe a capitalist, but more social system will be more maintainable long term? Similar like in Sweden or in Finnland? As I know these modern countries reallocate some part of extreme revenue to other part of the society who in needs and the whole population is more equal.

Sweden is smaller than the US, and plays a different role in the world. I don't think the same systems are apt.