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Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

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Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#31

Post by dennybritz »

nbkvjones wrote: post #25

there was a "discussion" on nadota.com about the bot and the semipro player that openai used to test chimed in. apparently the set of items the bot chose to purchase from was limited[1] and recommended by the semipro tester. As someone who knows next to nothing about ai, my question is this: the bot was announced on stage as blank slate, dumped into dota, and built entirely from grinding countless games against itsel…

The other big "hardcoded" constraint is most likely the usage of the bot API. The API itself is complex with lots of functionality and I would assume that researchers were extremely smart about picking out just the right API calls that are needed to make it work. That's very different from and much easier than training an agent based on raw keyboard/mouse input.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#32

Post by [deleted] »

nbkvjones wrote: post #25

there was a "discussion" on nadota.com about the bot and the semipro player that openai used to test chimed in. apparently the set of items the bot chose to purchase from was limited[1] and recommended by the semipro tester. As someone who knows next to nothing about ai, my question is this: the bot was announced on stage as blank slate, dumped into dota, and built entirely from grinding countless games against itsel…

[deleted]

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#33

Post by rapind »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #18
thinkfurther wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AGI has clearly taken everyone's job in 2100 What would be impressive about that? How's that something to get hyped for? The ways people try to shed their humanity are already well described, and all that's left is to outsource the double think to machines that won't mind and that can't be asked uncomfortable questions about their childhood and such things. It's a straight line, moving decision making from the publ…

What would be impressive about that? How's that something to get hyped for? I was being somewhat fatuous, as that is a common scare scenario. However, I do believe that it should be our goal as a human species, to create AGI as our intellectual successor. In the same way someone's child replaces them and they die, I think AGI should be our offspring and we as a species go peacefully into oblivion. It's my life's work…

Sounds pretty lonely no? Wouldn't the most intelligent AI be the only one left standing (just extended globally)?

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#34

Post by gnaritas »

dennybritz wrote: post #8
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

I agree. The point I was trying to make is not whether it is impressive or not (it is impressive!), but that the general press hype about "AI breakthroughs that will soon kill us all and need regulation" is over the top and misleading. The probably massive engineering effort that went into this is, to me, more impressive than the algorithmic innovation, if any. Progress is made with small incremental improvements, in…

When should people attempt to regulate AI, when it's too late? Stopping a problem before it happens is called foresight. And if you pay attention to the press, it's not about killing us all, it's about disrupting the world, i.e. destroying jobs.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#35

Post by landon32 »

flamedoge wrote: post #10
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

> AGI has clearly taken everyone's job in 2100 and we're all just providing training data for it. This got me spooked. What will we do afterwards?

Probably the work that is considered hobbies now. And lots more music/arts festivals, and other fun purely human things.

That's assuming that the wealth distribution is designed carefully. Obviously if 1-10 organizations dominate the AGI market and they aren't paying massive taxes/donating massive amounts of money, then things will be rough. It's really worth it to ensure this doesn't happen, and it's also the sort of thing that if it did start to happen it would be pretty obviously a problem.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#36

Post by visarga »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

AIs would be better served by other sources of data - such as the game Dota2 - because they can get unlimited data to test out their strategies.

What AIs need is simulators - in other words - a world/an environment for them, where they can freely move about, interact and learn. The success of AI is linked to the development of realistic sims. Fortunately, the happiness of many people is also linked to the development of realistic sims (games). They go hand in hand.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#37

Post by visarga »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11
dennybritz wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. The point I was trying to make is not whether it is impressive or not (it is impressive!), but that the general press hype about "AI breakthroughs that will soon kill us all and need regulation" is over the top and misleading. The probably massive engineering effort that went into this is, to me, more impressive than the algorithmic innovation, if any. Progress is made with small incremental improvements, in…

I somewhat agree with that but I think the biggest (underappreciated) algorithmic improvement recently was MaskRCNN. The ability to do Segmentation and Detection in the same net is huge.

But isn't that slow? It doesn't parallelize well for real time processing, because it goes sequentially pixel by pixel while CNNs process all pixels in parallel.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#38

Post by visarga »

thinkfurther wrote: post #17
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

> AGI has clearly taken everyone's job in 2100 What would be impressive about that? How's that something to get hyped for? The ways people try to shed their humanity are already well described, and all that's left is to outsource the double think to machines that won't mind and that can't be asked uncomfortable questions about their childhood and such things. It's a straight line, moving decision making from the publ…

You know that all species have to fight for survival? Now there's one more player on the scene. Nothing has changed. We still have to adapt or die. If there's anything that is the largest danger to humanity is humanity itself.

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#39

Post by justicezyx »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

> Yes, there is hype, but there are pretty solid reasons to be hyped.

Can you list the “pretty solid reasons” to be hyped?

Re: Hype or Not? Some Perspective on OpenAI’s DotA 2 Bot

#40

Post by AndrewKemendo »

visarga wrote: post #36
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #6

We did not make sudden progress in AI because our algorithms are so smart – it worked because our researchers are smart about setting up the problem in just the right way to work around the limitations of current techniques. This statement is like putting wheels and a motor at the base of the goalposts. Everyone who practices ML knows the reality that while we're not going to see AGI for a while, and these systems ar…

AIs would be better served by other sources of data - such as the game Dota2 - because they can get unlimited data to test out their strategies. What AIs need is simulators - in other words - a world/an environment for them, where they can freely move about, interact and learn. The success of AI is linked to the development of realistic sims. Fortunately, the happiness of many people is also linked to the development…

My take is that AI's need the real world, with real world reinforcement loops. That's why I'm so focused on AR, it's a perfect human machine interface for training - specifically vision.
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