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Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

steveblank.com

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Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#151
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really not easy to uproot and move from an economically depressed area to an active metropolis. I've done it (Athens, GA to San Francisco in late 2012) and it was incredibly expensive and involved a large amount of personal credit use, cash assistance from family, and time. It was a huge stretch at the time for me to move across the country and break into a new industry, and I did it as a single man, willing and…

"Now that I'm a programmer I can theoretically get a job in pretty much any American city I choose, and probably negotiate a starting/moving bonus" Try getting a job in Athens Georgia with equal or greater salary than you are earning now in SF

I don't know where those downvotes are coming from: you're very much on the money, here.

There is a major set of blinders techies in the big centers have with respect to how good the market is...anywhere else. It might be easy to walk across the street and land another $120k/year (low for SF, but still respectable enough especially for a single person) job in one of these markets and be doing something a bit more interesting than simple CRUD, but not elsewhere.

The fact is most technology jobs outside these hotspots pay poorly (usually not more than a small premium over other professions in the area) and are just not common anyway. They also are much closer to "grunt worker on the line" than "build your resume by being able to work with lots of technologies". A typical software developer job isn't at a software company in these places. It's in the IT Department as a low-class cost-center line item, working on basic CRUD with little or no say in the infrastructure or even product development, or else a fixed specification project in which you're more or less tinkering around the edges of a pre-existing system.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or maybe (many) poor people are acting rationally given their economic circumstances. See ["Reframing the Debate about Payday Lending"]( http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2015/10/reframi... ) (a pop summary of ["Interest rate caps and implicit collusion: the case of payday lending"]( http://www.inderscience.com/info/inarticle.php?artid=58089 ), DeYoung & Phillips), or other articles linked [this epi…

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are: - Poor people are stupid - Poor people are bad at personal finance - More/better education (government) will help Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college…

>Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too?

I think you'll find the HN consensus is that they're stupid (or were tragically misled) for going to college in a major other than computer science or engineering.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. Or maybe (many) poor people are acting rationally given their economic circumstances. See ["Reframing the Debate about Payday Lending"]( http://libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org/2015/10/reframi... ) (a pop summary of ["Interest rate caps and implicit collusion: the case of payday lending"]( http://www.inderscience.com/info/inarticle.php?artid=58089 ), DeYoung & Phillips), or other articles linked [this epi…

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are: - Poor people are stupid - Poor people are bad at personal finance - More/better education (government) will help Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college…

You are twisting my words. I never said poor people are stupid or the other way around.

I said the US credit card system puts people without insight into finances in a serious disadvantage. No sorry, it rips them off. And nobody is talking about it, because it seems everybody thinks it's normal.

Explain your credit score to a European for example, and you will be met with a blank stare or disbelief.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is why people don't use the time they have in the low cost-of-living area to develop the skills (via the Internet) that would make them attractive to employers in big cities? That was my approach - I lived at home with my parents after graduation, basically did nothing but program (both for work and after work), and after 3 years Google came knocking and paid for my move out to Silicon Valley.…

A fundamental understanding that not everyone can get positions at those companies because those companies will always take the top 30% (or whatever) of people with skills they desire. If everyone decides to take your approach companies will simply become more selective, not employ more people than they need too, no matter how good they are.

Not just the top X%, but the top X% living within commuting distance.

There may be some interest in relocating specific highly desirable individuals, but they will already be industry insiders.

Industry outsiders will not get relocation benefits.

The problem is that jobs have been offshored to increase profits.

You really have to think about this to understand it. The Harvard Business Economy has made it impossible for most people with average skills and abilities to find work that pays a living wage that makes essentials - not luxuries, but essentials like housing, food, and transport - reliably affordable.

Developers have top X% skills and see a very skewed economy where their services are relatively in demand.

Most people see a very different economy, which has left them behind with no prospects and no safety net.

Historically, this rarely ends well.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are: - Poor people are stupid - Poor people are bad at personal finance - More/better education (government) will help Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college…

You are twisting my words. I never said poor people are stupid or the other way around. I said the US credit card system puts people without insight into finances in a serious disadvantage. No sorry, it rips them off. And nobody is talking about it, because it seems everybody thinks it's normal. Explain your credit score to a European for example, and you will be met with a blank stare or disbelief.

You're still not quite getting it. If people have to choose between going into debt from a finance charge or starving on the street with no roof over their head they will choose the former. It's not about financial education it's about hard choices of the underprivileged.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't learn finance in Germany in school but we all knew that taking on massive debt is stupid. It's the advertising and easy access to consumer credit. Wage increases have been replaced by easier access to credit.

Germany is the other extreme though. Not sure if that is healthier.

The German model definitely has lower risks. If something goes wrong, there will still be something left with which you can rebuild.

The American high-risk model on the other hand is definitely one that isn't long-term sustainable, but it wins out in short term, until another crash happens.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are: - Poor people are stupid - Poor people are bad at personal finance - More/better education (government) will help Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college…

>Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too? I think you'll find the HN consensus is that they're stupid (or were tragically misled) for going to college in a major other than computer science or engineering.

There are plenty of CS/engineering majors who end up un/underemployed too.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are twisting my words. I never said poor people are stupid or the other way around. I said the US credit card system puts people without insight into finances in a serious disadvantage. No sorry, it rips them off. And nobody is talking about it, because it seems everybody thinks it's normal. Explain your credit score to a European for example, and you will be met with a blank stare or disbelief.

You're still not quite getting it. If people have to choose between going into debt from a finance charge or starving on the street with no roof over their head they will choose the former. It's not about financial education it's about hard choices of the underprivileged.

I'm not talking about starving on the street, I'm talking about everybody in US using credit cards for payments and repay. I'm talking about shops offering their own credit cards.

You know when US people use their credit card? Every day. You know when Europeans use their credit card? When abroad. And our credit gets instantly paid by our normal bank account. For us, a credit card is the same as a debit card but with a delay on it.

Re: Annual note to self: most of the world exists outside the tech bubble

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germany is the other extreme though. Not sure if that is healthier.

The German model definitely has lower risks. If something goes wrong, there will still be something left with which you can rebuild. The American high-risk model on the other hand is definitely one that isn't long-term sustainable, but it wins out in short term, until another crash happens.

I think especially in the last 30 years the risk has been shifted to lower incomes. To me that's the real evil.
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