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Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

economist.com

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Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#71

Post by knappe »

Brakenshire wrote: post #58
cwilson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken quite a few overnight buses during a 6 month trip through South America. Even when paying for the luxury option (which is literally $10-$15 more, totally worth it) and having fully reclining comfortable seats, it all comes down to one thing, the drivers. If the drivers are maximizing for time you're not going to sleep very well because they are driving like a maniac. Sudden halts, near misses, and sharp co…

Buses like this should be fitted with accelerometers, and drivers be rewarded for good driving. Actually the same applies to ordinary buses, a careful driver makes the journey much more comfortable.

While I agree with the sentiment, it does nothing to account for all the other drivers on the road. I don't really see how this is fair to the bus driver.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#72

Post by ghaff »

chrischen wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd usually pay $800 roundtrip for CHI->DAL; By car (and Google Maps measuring) that's about 3.000km total. Hamburg-Munich is about 1.500km total, so half the distance. But ÖBB Nightjet tickets start for ~160€ to 250€ roundtrip, about half the price and Amtrak is losing money? How is that even possible?

They're losing money because that's a ridiculously expensive price and people looking to just get from point A to B would not pay that.

So they should cut their prices and lose even more money? The basic problem is that outside of the Northeast Corridor--which is very popular, profitable, and getting new infrastructure investment--there are very few city pairs in the US that have the right combination of density and distance. Effectively the Northeast Corridor makes all the money that Amtrak then loses in the rest of the country.

This is a few years old but summarizes Amtrak profit (or lack thereof) by route: http://reasonrail.blogspot.com/2014/11/amtrak-routes-by-2014...

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#73

Post by williamle8300 »

One of the missing points: convenience. Taking a bus "feels" like less of a hassle. Nobody likes having to deal with authorities (check-in people, the TSA). Taking a bus means you have more control over the terms of your trip.

While raw time-to-destination is important, people are also looking for emotional expenditure savings too.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#74

Post by williamle8300 »

clamprecht wrote: post #4

"The drivers intentionally go slowly and take back roads so that the trip, normally six hours, lasts eight." Why not just get there 2 hours early, park, and sit for 2 hours. This would (1) reduce vehicle motion, so you can sleep better, and (2) allow people who aren't asleep anyway to get out early if they want. It may also save gas, although once buses are electric, this becomes less of a factor.

I'm guessing that the shortest routes from LASF will have more traffic so there's more stop-and-go which diminishes restful sleeping.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#75

Post by et-al »

cvsh wrote: post #22
dopeboy wrote: post #17

I make this commute pretty often (albeit to Orange County, not LA) and I've been following these guys for awhile. I was under the impression their price would be a lot less than a flight. Their price roundtrip is $230. A roundtrip flight from SF to LA usually runs $160-$350 depending on how far in advance you book it. Taking the $350 ceiling - is a $120 savings enough to justify a ~6 hour difference? It's still a gre…

It also potentially eliminates the need for 1-2 nights of hotel rooms. Depending on your travel situation, that might be more convenient.

Except in this case we're talking about SF/LA, which is only an hour-long flight.

I do this flight every other month or so and it's a breeze. You leave work a bit early on Friday, get to the airport in about an hour, board the plane, they serve you a drink, and the captain tells you to fasten your seatbelt because we're descending.

It's 1 hour to the airport, 45 minutes through security, 1 hour in the air, and another 45 min to my friend's house. So 3.5 hours, but round it up to 4 hours door to door. Sure, summer months have weather delays like low ceilings at SFO, but otherwise it's one of the smoother journeys one can have.

I guess if you party in SF on Friday, and sleep and sober up on a midnight bus, and go HAM all weekend in LA, then recharge on the return leg for Monday. However, I'm too old for that and would much rather sleep in a proper bed.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#76

Post by mschuster91 »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #70
jetti wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is more to it than just a single rail line. Who owns the rail that ÖBB Nightjet uses? Amtrak has to make payments to the owners of the rail that they ride on. They are incremental payments and not access fees but that is still a cost. Second, Amtrak has many more employees (including their own police force), which will add cost. Third, Amtrak also owns at least 2 train stations (Union Station in Chicago and Pen…

OeBB needs to pay to the individual companies that own the track. In Austria that is OeBB Infra which is an independent company. In Germany to dB Netz etc.

Yep, and neither ÖBB Infra nor DB Netz are known for cheap rates... actually, at least for DB Netz, you can do the calculations on your own computer using the ratio calculator (http://fahrweg.dbnetze.com/fahrweg-de/kunden/leistungen/tras...).

Hamburg-Munich alone the track fees end up with 5k €, plus electricity usage, usage of shunting vehicles, usage of train stations, trash/sewage disposal... it adds up.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#77

Post by stouset »

arnarbi wrote: post #37
clamprecht wrote: post #4

"The drivers intentionally go slowly and take back roads so that the trip, normally six hours, lasts eight." Why not just get there 2 hours early, park, and sit for 2 hours. This would (1) reduce vehicle motion, so you can sleep better, and (2) allow people who aren't asleep anyway to get out early if they want. It may also save gas, although once buses are electric, this becomes less of a factor.

Driving slower might quite possibly save on fuel, even if it takes longer. Parking a bus that long where it is convenient for the early risers to get off isn't necessarily easy either. Plus, as others mention, you'd wake everyone else up.

Not to mention, those early risers exiting while everyone else is asleep would wake the rest of the bus.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#78

Post by mgkimsal »

Nrsolis wrote: post #61
visarga wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm wondering why airports don't try to monopolize airport taxi business. It's the logical extension of traveling from point A to B end-to-end.

What makes you think they haven't? In the DC area, there is a single provider of taxi service from Dulles Airport (IAD). http://www.flydulles.com/iad/washington-flyer-taxi-service Any other taxi service trying to pick up fares from IAD are violating the contract between the Metro Washington Airport Authority and Dulles Taxi.

> Any other taxi service trying to pick up fares from IAD are violating the contract between the Metro Washington Airport Authority and Dulles Taxi.

Why would I care if I've violated a contract between two other parties?

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#79

Post by kilroy123 »

Brakenshire wrote: post #58
cwilson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken quite a few overnight buses during a 6 month trip through South America. Even when paying for the luxury option (which is literally $10-$15 more, totally worth it) and having fully reclining comfortable seats, it all comes down to one thing, the drivers. If the drivers are maximizing for time you're not going to sleep very well because they are driving like a maniac. Sudden halts, near misses, and sharp co…

Buses like this should be fitted with accelerometers, and drivers be rewarded for good driving. Actually the same applies to ordinary buses, a careful driver makes the journey much more comfortable.

In Mexico at least, if the driver goes over the speed limit a semi-loud buzzer goes off. Which really encourages them to slow down under the limit.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#80

Post by ghaff »

jetti wrote: post #38
FTA wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amtrak offers this with "roomettes" all the way up to 4-person rooms, though whether it's an overnight or a day trip depends on your origin and destination (for example, Chicago to Dallas is an overnight). You mention that Germany had eliminated all but the profitable ones--well, the U.S. government loses money on these routes to keep them running even in spite of the high prices. I'd usually pay $800 roundtrip for C…

The problem with Amtrak is that it takes so long. My wife and her family went to Orlando from Chicago last December and flying was way too expensive for all 4 of them. They ended up driving, after not wanting to, but I looked into Amtrak for them. It would've taken 36 hours to get from Chicago to Orlando with 2 major stretches. The second stretch was 19 hours and had NO food car. I assume you can buy stuff at the sta…

In San Francisco, there is no Amtrak station in the city proper. It's on the other side of the bay. I believe there's a connecting Amtrak-operated bus from the Ferry Building to Emeryville.
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