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Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

economist.com

11–20 of 119 posts

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#11

"The drivers intentionally go slowly and take back roads so that the trip, normally six hours, lasts eight." Why not just get there 2 hours early, park, and sit for 2 hours. This would (1) reduce vehicle motion, so you can sleep better, and (2) allow people who aren't asleep anyway to get out early if they want. It may also save gas, although once buses are electric, this becomes less of a factor.

> allow people who aren't asleep anyway to get out early if they want.

And in so doing wake everyone up.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#12

"The drivers intentionally go slowly and take back roads so that the trip, normally six hours, lasts eight." Why not just get there 2 hours early, park, and sit for 2 hours. This would (1) reduce vehicle motion, so you can sleep better, and (2) allow people who aren't asleep anyway to get out early if they want. It may also save gas, although once buses are electric, this becomes less of a factor.

I don't know about everyone else, but if I'm sleeping in a moving vehicle and it comes to a stop, I'll typically wake up.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#13

In Germany, we have had a quite extensive network of night trains with proper beds (and the more expensive tickets also have a shower in the carriage); unfortunately the network got massively thinned out in the last years and only the profitable core routes are in service now by Austrian ÖBB. Shouldn't something like this be possible in America, especially between far-away cities? Could at least be more profitable be…

FWIW OeBB is investing into new night trains for routes between Austria and Italy. If they get popular they want to expand that.

https://www.oebb.at/en/news/nightjet-der-zukunft

I generally really like nighttrains but there are not enough routes i need to take.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#14

In Germany, we have had a quite extensive network of night trains with proper beds (and the more expensive tickets also have a shower in the carriage); unfortunately the network got massively thinned out in the last years and only the profitable core routes are in service now by Austrian ÖBB. Shouldn't something like this be possible in America, especially between far-away cities? Could at least be more profitable be…

Amtrak offers this with "roomettes" all the way up to 4-person rooms, though whether it's an overnight or a day trip depends on your origin and destination (for example, Chicago to Dallas is an overnight). You mention that Germany had eliminated all but the profitable ones--well, the U.S. government loses money on these routes to keep them running even in spite of the high prices. I'd usually pay $800 roundtrip for CHI->DAL; meals _are_ included and you get I believe up to two carry-ons and two checked bags for free.

I will say it is definitely a lower stress option. You can show up 30 minutes before your train is leaving and there's no security lines. Depending on the station, it could be just an empty train station in a rural town or a large station interconnected with other transport services (e.g. Boston, Chicago).

The population you are traveling with is much different compared not only to airlines but also coach on the train. Generally your sleeper carmates are retired folks who don't want to deal with the hassle of TSA, running between connections, arriving three hours early, and so on. I've met some extremely nice people with amazing stories (you are seated with strangers at meals, so this is almost forced on you). If you are not in a hurry and have a few extra bucks, it's worth it at least once to experience the journey, especially across the Upper Midwest or coasts.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#16

In Germany, we have had a quite extensive network of night trains with proper beds (and the more expensive tickets also have a shower in the carriage); unfortunately the network got massively thinned out in the last years and only the profitable core routes are in service now by Austrian ÖBB. Shouldn't something like this be possible in America, especially between far-away cities? Could at least be more profitable be…

Amtrak does run a number of night trains, mostly on the routes where the trip is too long to plausibly do it as a day train, though. For example the NYC-Chicago night train (Lake Shore Limited) departs NYC at 15:40 and arrives in Chicago at 09:45 the next day (19 hours). And Chicago-SF is a 2-night trip (51 hours).

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#17
I make this commute pretty often (albeit to Orange County, not LA) and I've been following these guys for awhile.

I was under the impression their price would be a lot less than a flight. Their price roundtrip is $230. A roundtrip flight from SF to LA usually runs $160-$350 depending on how far in advance you book it. Taking the $350 ceiling - is a $120 savings enough to justify a ~6 hour difference?

It's still a great idea - but price it cheaper like < 100 RT.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#19
I'd be too worried about a tired driver causing an accident while I'm in a "sleeping pod" with no seatbelts, and potentially ramming head first into a wall.

Honestly, I would consider this with a self-driving bus when the time comes. For now, I know human nature too well to assume that all drivers had a nice rest and can easily stay up 3rd shift fully alert.

Re: Why an eight-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to San Francisco might beat a flight

#20
post #14

In Germany, we have had a quite extensive network of night trains with proper beds (and the more expensive tickets also have a shower in the carriage); unfortunately the network got massively thinned out in the last years and only the profitable core routes are in service now by Austrian ÖBB. Shouldn't something like this be possible in America, especially between far-away cities? Could at least be more profitable be…

Amtrak offers this with "roomettes" all the way up to 4-person rooms, though whether it's an overnight or a day trip depends on your origin and destination (for example, Chicago to Dallas is an overnight). You mention that Germany had eliminated all but the profitable ones--well, the U.S. government loses money on these routes to keep them running even in spite of the high prices. I'd usually pay $800 roundtrip for C…

> I'd usually pay $800 roundtrip for CHI->DAL;

By car (and Google Maps measuring) that's about 3.000km total. Hamburg-Munich is about 1.500km total, so half the distance. But ÖBB Nightjet tickets start for ~160€ to 250€ roundtrip, about half the price and Amtrak is losing money?

How is that even possible?

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