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OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

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Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#41

Post by hhmc »

mAritz wrote: post #39
hhmc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had access to a less restricted AI. Until we see more concrete information I remain sceptical that they are only using the official API.

Why? Everything it needed for that 1v1 was available. There was nothing in the FoW that needed to be known, it can keep timers about enemy cooldowns, gold and xp (approximations at least since it's somewhat random).

I'm not suggesting they had information that a human player wouldn't (i.e. cheating), I just suspect that they may have access to a richer api.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#42

Post by kibwen »

In the interest of a "fairer" comparison, I wonder how much of a difference it would make to force the AI to simulate mouse/keyboard input and interpret the raw screen buffer output, rather than using direct APIs into the game's guts, to more faithfully emulate its human opponent. I'm guessing the peripheral inputs wouldn't be much of a hurdle, but the image processing step could be very interesting.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#43

Post by Zyst »

kibwen wrote: post #42

In the interest of a "fairer" comparison, I wonder how much of a difference it would make to force the AI to simulate mouse/keyboard input and interpret the raw screen buffer output, rather than using direct APIs into the game's guts, to more faithfully emulate its human opponent. I'm guessing the peripheral inputs wouldn't be much of a hurdle, but the image processing step could be very interesting.

Raw screen is not as big of a deal as it would seem, in DotA and Starcraft you can glimpse most of the information you can see on a screen through the minimap.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#44

Post by deivid »

ronald_raygun wrote: post #33
justicezyx wrote: post #20

To be clear 1v1 mid lane is harder than 1 unit v 1 unit in sc. But it is at least 3 levels behind 5v5 human play. So first it's laining, which is showing in the game. Then is the ganking basically 2-3 player working together. Above that that's 5 men team fight. Then you have the strategy planning in the band pick phase, and in game movement coordination. There are other things like item choices, in game communication…

I'm not sure about DOTA, but in LOL there is also champion select which happens before the game starts, where you try to pick/ban/steal champions to get a good team comp and get the other team to have a bad team comp. It's lots of know overall strategy, what your enemy likes, and some game theory. You can lose the game before your summoner even hits the field.

Main difference is all Dota heroes are viable in competitive. Also, there's no mirror match

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#46

Post by banhfun »

exabrial wrote: post #45

OT: Is backdooring prevented by the game engine yet? Annoyed me that a useful tactic was "against the rules"

It's always been prevented in Dota 2. Buildings have backdoor protection, which makes them regenerate lost HP from recent attacks unless there are creeps nearby.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#47

Post by nopinsight »

hhmc wrote: post #40
taion wrote: post #14

Is the "two weeks" of time in the Dota environment, or two weeks of training time running in parallel as with A3C or something?

From what the devs indicated on stream it sounded like processing hours (with a ratio of around 300 in-game hours to 1 processing hour).

Interesting. That means it accumulates the equivalent of 24 * 14 * 300 = 100,800 hours of experience. That's about double the amount of practice one gets for playing 10 hours a day for 14 years.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#48

Post by popinman322 »

Analemma_ wrote: post #17

Not that this isn’t very cool, but 1v1 Dota isn’t anything like the full game, it’s mostly a competition of who has better micro. If it can beat a team of pros at 5v5– which is where the imperfect information, short-vs-long term strategy and inter-agent communication challenges come into play— then I’ll be impressed.

Honestly, you don't even have to make all the AI heroes separate. We automatically assume that each would be controlled by a separate virtual player, but one virtual player could very well control all controllable units on a team. That'd be interesting to watch.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#49

Post by bronz »

this whole emphasis that openai and deepmind put on human/robot collaboration is a paper thin pr move in my opinion. the robots will be better than any human, humans will not be able to contribute a single thing soon. but they try to make us all feel safe by making it look like they benefit from our brains.

Re: OpenAI at the Dota 2 World Championships

#50

Post by terda12 »

As a longtime DotA player and someone who's following the pro scene, this is very impressive. Especially considering how it's beaten Sumail, widely regarded as one of the best 1v1 players in the world. Can't wait to see what OpenAI have in store a year from now for 5v5.
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