Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well I do read NYT's political pieces and haven't ever noticed any biases against conservatives.
Interesting. Do you think NYT is a neutral publication? Honest question.
Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
351–360 of 507 posts
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#352Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, James isn't owed a charitable reading. He is owed a rational reading. addendum: Irrational people misinterpreting a text is precisely that. Surely you can't be saying that a text having a fairly high bar for intelligent interpretation and discussion is reason for that text to not exist?
It is not irrational to misinterpret poorly written, poorly worded, and inconclusive text. Reading a text is a dialogue. If the writer did not appropriately express the intent, then they invite the reader to finish the thought. And this even rational people can arrive at different conclusions. To suggest every reading you don't approve of as "irrational" is a predictable, even classical tactic. Many words exist for i…
If you want to talk about how the memo was poorly written, talk about how the memo was poorly written. The readings of others certainly can supplement your analysis, but you haven't provided that analysis.
The memo begins with it's intent, and even has a TLDR after the opening three paragraphs.
Also, while the memo was mostly trying to assess the current state and factors of the gender imbalance in tech and Google particularly, it does provide several, literal, conclusions. Here are just a few:
>We can make software engineering more people-oriented with pair programming and more collaboration.
>Women on average are more cooperative [...] Allow those exhibiting cooperative behavior to thrive. Recent updates to Perf may be doing this to an extent, but maybe there's more we can do.
>Make tech and leadership less stressful. Google already partly does this with its many stress reduction courses and benefits.
If you actually read the memo, and have actual problems with what was actually written, then talk about that. There's certainly plenty to discuss and to rationally disagree about, but you have yet to say anything substantial about the thing you're criticizing.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#353Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of his main points in the memo is at the top:"Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. " What am I missing? This is the topic he explores the most in his memo and I don't see anything analyzing social effects. While his paper is nuanced, he basically only focuses on the biological argument and seeks to ch…
My main take-away reading it was that he argued for diversity in thought instead of mandated diversity that looks good in a picture or in statistics.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#354Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of his main points in the memo is at the top:"Differences in distributions of traits between men and women may in part explain why we don’t have 50% representation of women in tech and leadership. " What am I missing? This is the topic he explores the most in his memo and I don't see anything analyzing social effects. While his paper is nuanced, he basically only focuses on the biological argument and seeks to ch…
My main take-away reading it was that he argued for diversity in thought instead of mandated diversity that looks good in a picture or in statistics.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#355Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are women working at Google who do not need to be reminded of the genetic and biologic differences they have from their cishet male counterparts. I'm a white male. I know that the average Asian has a higher IQ than the average white man. This means positively nothing when comparing me with a given Asian, however. That is the root of this discussion that so many so profoundly miss. The average Google male is not…
Please visit "Asia". Don't go to Japan or South Korea or one of the city states. Go to India or China or somewhere in middle east. I don't think there are biological differences that would make people of the largest continent more smarter than another group.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#356Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. Here is the only intelligent thing I've read about this debacle: To me, if you read it and are completely outraged or uniformly in favor, then you are part of the problem. http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/07/opinions/google-employee-manif...
I don't understand that statement.. or why you would agree with it. The auther of the memo was attempting to present facts. Why wouldn't I completely agree with facts that are true? Especially in this case, when most cognitive scientists seem to agree upon the facts as presented? [1] It really doesn't matter if you agree or disagree with facts... they are still reality, regardless. And I see very, very few people arg…
Some have argued that treating others as individuals is what's already happening, resulting in people hiring people like them?
Damore spoke more about gender, than skin color as well. This part of the conversation isn't getting enough review too.
Diversity isn't just gender diversity. Gender diversity may just be the diversity that the majority can relate to.
With that being said, Many types of diversity require many types of approaches.
The lean startup conference has some laudable dialogue and track record hurling themselves into all sorts of diversity innovation discomfort: https://hbr.org/2014/01/theres-no-excuse-for-all-white-male-...
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#357Wow, I'd never imagine to read this piece in NY Times.
Why is that? David Brooks has been a conservative editorial commentator for a long time there.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#358Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I know that the average Asian has a higher IQ than the average white man. How can you be sure that it's the average Asia , as opposed to the average Asian in the US ? IMO a better example would be to use Ashkenazi Jews... or are they too white to count?
Yeah, he slipped in a huge assumption there as if it's established fact. Of course Asians in the US are smart. There is a high bar for foreigners entering the US. This is the genius behind "Give me your tired, your poor". We actually end up taking the hard working, wealthy ones who've gotten into college by passing tests in their second language at the same age as we go to school.
Lets face it. They have resources to both cheat and get tutoring on the ways to pass an exam. Lets see how everyone does cold turkey when all of the outside factors like money and resources other than race and gender are held constant.
What are the results of a study like that? That would be a more interesting test than saying X or Y is genetically more suited to this field.
Most if not all of that line of reasoning is based on 1000 year old social constructs...and the mountains of "research" that was later made up to give it credibility when people started to question these social constructs.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#359Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are women working at Google who do not need to be reminded of the genetic and biologic differences they have from their cishet male counterparts. I'm a white male. I know that the average Asian has a higher IQ than the average white man. This means positively nothing when comparing me with a given Asian, however. That is the root of this discussion that so many so profoundly miss. The average Google male is not…
> He was not saying that women who work at Google are at a biological disadvantage, in any way, and that is a perverse misreading. He was saying that on the whole there's a biological reason when you roll the dice enough that more males are suitable for that work. I don't understand what you said there, can you elaborate? What is the difference between males being more biologically suitable and females being at a dis…
The IQ distribution of men and women is slightly different, and this is essentially settled science (it really is, however much we might pontificate -- our genetic past rolls the dice more with males). The male curve is slightly fatter, yielding larger numbers of exceptionally high and exceptionally low members. This means absolutely nothing if you have a male with an IQ of 140 and a female with an IQ of 140, however. Nor does it mean a 100 IQ male should be working at Google because there are slightly more high IQ males born.
We are smart enough to understand the difference between set probabilities and individual traits. Right?
because the distribution of women in tech has changed drastically in the last 50 years faster than evolution's say in the matter
Obviously there are social factors. That is indisputable. But at a point the gains in leveling the sexes for some domains become harder to get because there are confounding factors. Women in engineering has stayed virtually constant for several decades now.
Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O
#360Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He was not saying that women who work at Google are at a biological disadvantage, in any way, and that is a perverse misreading. He was saying that on the whole there's a biological reason when you roll the dice enough that more males are suitable for that work. I don't understand what you said there, can you elaborate? What is the difference between males being more biologically suitable and females being at a dis…
Let's say you are an american. 60% of americans are overweight. Does that mean you are overweight?