Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O • Hacker News Board

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#291

Post by taysic » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #83

Shank wrote: post #8

Honestly, I think he made the right move just from a PR perspective. His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. The author of the manifesto caused Google a PR disaster and created a huge state of internal conflict, valid or not. The shareholders are probably really happy that their CEO removed a person who managed to get Google so much bad press in so little time. This is the reali…

> His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. No. His firing confirmed part of Demore's thesis; that Google has monoculture issues and sits in some sort of bubble. > This is the reality of business. Is it? If that's true, we need to be much more aggressive about corporate consolidation because the only way to make room for diversity of opinion is to make sure that there's diversity…

There's plenty of diversity of opinion within a workplace. No one is obligated to listen to it. If it's made this public so as to embarrass their own company, well what can you do. People get fired for dumber reasons.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#292

Post by danarmak » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

humanrebar wrote: post #259

danarmak wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sundar could have fired Damore without making an official statement. Or he could have made a statement that doesn't elaborate on the reasons for the firing, or that says what you did - that he's being fired for causing bad PR. Instead, Sundar found it necessary to lie in his official statement about what Damore had said. He defamed him by saying that his memo contained things that are contrary to what the memo actual…

> Sundar found it necessary to lie in his official statement about what Damore had said It could be a lie? It seems more logical that it's a misunderstanding. Neither make Pichai look good, especially since he had no discussions with Damore (according to Damore) to clear up any misunderstandings.

It's like the article says: either Sundar didn't take the time to read the memo himself (which would be stupid and dangerous), or he didn't understand it (which is another way of calling him stupid), or - as seems most likely - he knowingly misrepresented it.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#293

Post by wmil » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

Shank wrote: post #8

Honestly, I think he made the right move just from a PR perspective. His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. The author of the manifesto caused Google a PR disaster and created a huge state of internal conflict, valid or not. The shareholders are probably really happy that their CEO removed a person who managed to get Google so much bad press in so little time. This is the reali…

At the same time, Google should also pull in and disciple their employees that were rabble-rousing about the memo on social media.

They aren't doing that and it's creating a perception of unfairness.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#294

Post by LunaSea » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

mwytock wrote: post #255

lobotryas wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You start by saying something is not "supported by the facts" and then go on by talking about how it's "highly offensive" (i.e.: hurts your feelings). I just want you to meditate on this for a bit.

I'm not sure what the contradiction is here? Also, I wasn't making any claim about my own feelings, the massive response shows that the memo was highly offensive to many people.

Something being offensive doesn't mean it's wrong or that it shouldn't be debated.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#295

Post by moneytalks » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:54 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #178

moneytalks wrote: post #105

Let's take bets on how long this survives on the front page. I'm going with 15-20 minutes from now. Who wants the over/under? edit: Already down from 3rd to 6th while points went from 130 to 170. 7 minutes in. edit: now 7th

It sinks like a stone because it has attracted 160+ comments in a mere hour.

Didn't realize that too-high engagement counted against rank. Interesting approach.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#296

Post by v1n337 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

> The fourth actor is the media. The coverage of the memo has been atrocious.

The irony.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#297

Post by humanrebar » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:56 PM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #193

humanrebar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thesis or not, this is right at the beginning: "Google’s political bias has equated the freedom from offense with psychological safety, but shaming into silence is the antithesis of psychological safety. This silencing has created an ideological echo chamber where some ideas are too sacred to be honestly discussed." ...firing him, at least the way they did it, confirmed that position.

There's nothing revelationary about that statement. Anyone could read Google's code of conduct and know that Google would fire/reprimand someone for being toxic to their coworkers. Employees are free to debate and cherry pick evidence about their opinions on the world being flat, 9/11 being an inside job, even a fake moon landing. James decided he wanted to debate about his opinion on his workers being biologically i…

If he has the opinion that his coworkers are biologically inferior, I didn't see that in the memo.

Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#298

Post by nunobrito » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:56 PM UTC

ebola1717 wrote: post #61

endorphone wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The firing has been a PR disaster, and amplified and exaggerated the effect of this issue (not to mention that it drew attention to other factors, like Google's institutional ageism). And while I don't want to diagnose over the internet, it seems like it's attacking someone on the spectrum for traits of being on the spectrum. By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, and doubled down on this discussion.…

Only on the internet. I really don't think anyone in the real world is paying that much attention, and besides Brooks, I haven't seen many mainstream writers come out against the firing.

Seems to be same group of mainstream writers who also dished out Trump as a joke candidate and hailed Clinton as winner.

Very few had the courage to talk against that trend, one of them was Michael Moore and check how accurate he was when compared to "mainstream": https://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#299

Post by ameister14 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:57 PM UTC

clavalle wrote: post #279

GreaterFool wrote: post #117

This is the first fair and balanced article on this topic I've seen. > In his memo, Damore cites a series of studies, making the case, for example, that men tend to be more interested in things and women more interested in people. (Interest is not the same as ability.) I've been trying to hammer this point to all my colleagues (in private of course, I wouldn't dare to post it on public channel due to high probability…

First, the author of this article is David Brooks -- a well known, very conservative, commentator. So, it might be fair and balanced in a Fox News sense of the phrase but not fair and balanced as most people would understand the phrase. And for the general population skew in interests/preferences to make any difference whatsoever to the makeup of Google's technical and leadership staff the argument would have to be t…

I take issue with your first point but not your second.

I don't believe that the fact that a commentator is conservative means they are spewing propaganda as Fox News is. Fox News is conservative, and Fox News is unfair and unbalanced. The conservative nature of Fox News is not why it is unfair and unbalanced.

Totally agree on the second part, though. Huge pool of candidates, honestly ridiculous to think that this would explain the imbalance at Google.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#300

Post by mc32 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:57 PM UTC

citrusx wrote: post #287

mc32 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could say the people wanting the ex a employee fired were also a small vocal group. I really doubt more than 10% of Googlers felt personally threatened affronted by someone having a different view on advancing women in tech.

So, only about 7800 people is all?

Kind of like if we extrapolate the 10% of the population who are vocally upset at google because of the dismissal we only have 30+ million upset with google the co.