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Ad blocking is under attack

blog.adguard.com

211–220 of 598 posts

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#211
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea has been Coming Soon for decades. But maybe that's ok. I really like that I can visit the vast majority of links I click on for free.

Do you think this will collapse if adblock becomes 90% ubiquitous?

Well, the sites that currently fund operations through ads would have to fund them some other way, right? I think many of them would transition to other business models, scale back, or go away completely. I think you'd also see a sharp rise in types of sponsorships that look less like traditional ads and aren't as blockable, like when The Onion has funny original content about cooking at home brought to you by Blue Apron.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when the USA sent super cops to rappel into Kim dotcoms house and kick down doors?

Kim should have chosen a different country. One that isn't so keen on letting the US raid their citizens.

I don't think such a country exists. The influence of American's empire, and its entertainment industry, is pretty vast.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when the USA sent super cops to rappel into Kim dotcoms house and kick down doors?

Kim should have chosen a different country. One that isn't so keen on letting the US raid their citizens.

I don't think such a country exists. The influence of American's empire, and its entertainment industry, is pretty vast.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DMCA doesn't just let you request the takedown of copyrighted content. It lets you request the takedown of tools which can be used to "circumvent technological restrictions" on accessing other, unrelated copyrighted content. So for instance, when the CSS encryption on DVDs was broken, there were DMCA takedown requests issued to sites hosting the deCSS decryption code, even though the copyright of that code itself…

That could be, cite to the law or description of it? I'm interested in learning more. What I see in the law ( https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/512 ) is that a "notification of claimed infringement" must include "Identification of the copyrighted work claimed to have been infringed, or, if multiple copyrighted works at a single online site are covered by a single notification, a representative list of such w…

Part of the challenge here is that "the DMCA" is a number of clauses. People who are "against the DMCA" often turn out to have an incoherent position, at least from a legal standpoint, when it turns out they just disagree with one of the contentious clauses.

This would in fact be the most contentious clause, the one about being able to take down tools that enable circumvention, the one that is historically the one that perturbs techies and HN-types the most. I think what we see here isn't so much a DMCA takedown of a single line, but a single line modification in an attempt to prevent someone trying to take down the entire ad blocker, by making it so this particular person doesn't have any standing (in the legal sense) to make claims against the ad blockers anymore.

The copyright takedown clause would be number two, but it has a mitigating factor; the DMCA copyright takedown process that you might see on a hosting site or HN itself [1] has a positive element as well, which is that by conforming to the DMCA a site like HN is able to host user content like our comments while discharging from themselves the responsibility of having to pre-filter every comment for copyrighted content. This clause has certainly been abused, and there is a justifiable case that the Feds have not been adequately aggressive about chasing them down, but on the net I still approve of this clause, personally.

(You also have to distinguish between "the DMCA" and a site's policy, which may go above and beyond. Many or most of the things that people complain about for YouTube, for instance, are their own elaborations on the theme, not the legal requirements themselves. Not all of them, though; YouTube tends to favor the big media companies very strongly when it comes to defining "fair use". But things like taking away your monetization and giving it to somebody else is a YouTube policy, not the DMCA. Or at the very least, it's a penumbric emanation of the DMCA and not the DMCA itself.)

Were I the developers or anyone with any ownership in this software, I would hesitate on putting too much stock in the idea that this was an improper use of the DMCA claim process. It was. But the reward for aggressively pushing back on that may be a proper lawsuit for violation of the anti-circumvention clauses, for which there is not a notification process but simply a legal basis for lawsuits granted, IIRC. Your reward for armchair-lawyering this DMCA takedown request could be a true lawsuit.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/dmca.html - have a look at the footer of this page

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#215

I didn't get what the hell happened. So, Admiral—an anti-adblocker company—contacted EasyList and told them to remove a domain from their list. This domain was a server they needed for their anti-adblocker platform to work. EasyList told Admiral that they would only do it if GitHub agreed, so Admiral contacted GitHub and the domain was removed from the EasyList list after GitHub told EasyList they should comply. The…

IIUC, the DMCA says that if there's some technological mechanism X that's used to enforce copyright, and a tool Y that is (or can be) used to circumvent X, then making or distributing Y is itself illegal (as opposed to the act of using Y to circumvent X, which is already illegal even without the DMCA). The DMCA then provides a notice-based method for 'taking down' online copies of Y. In this case, X is the Admiral te…

What does ad-blocking have to do with copyright circumvention or copyright enforcement? The only think on that list is the domain name.

I'm certain that including a name in a list does not fall under copyright (ample precedent that backs it up). In the unlikey (and unfathomable) case that it is protected under copyright, I bet it would fall under fair use.

Trademark law isn't relevant to an entry in a machine database.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#216
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copyright law doesn't care what technology you use to store and distribute material. If you have a blockchain that contains unauthorized copyrighted material, any host participating in that network would be legally subject to DMCA requests by the copyright holder. What would the defense look like in court, anyway? "We can't stop illegally distributing the plaintiff's content because that would break the chain?" In ef…

How would that work though? DMCA only applies to the US, so with a global network how would the DMCA be effective? Even if every node in the network in the US removes it, all you might achieve is break the chain. The content will still be there.

The same is true of any other distributed storage system. Adding a blockchain doesn't change the situation in any way, other than making complying with the law far less convenient.

Though I should add that while the DMCA is indeed a US law, and notification and enforcement mechanisms vary by jurisdiction, other countries also have copyright law. It's illegal to publish copyrighted material without permission in any country with a copyright system. That's what copyright is.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#217
post #201
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I understand better now. If Admiral enables paywalls, then I kind of agree with Admiral. If companies want to put paywalls, circumventing them is kind of like jumping the gate to see a concert for free. I always hit the back button, but publishers should be free to put up paywalls (no idea why they don't do it server-side, but that's another story). So, I guess the article or at least the title are a little s…

Here's the thing - if blocking the loading of your protection script from a third-party server is all it takes to bypass your paywall, haven't you really, really screwed up? Surely it should be the other way around - the paywall doesn't let you through unless the code is accessible and gets run? I'm not going to try and claim people wouldn't be so stupid as to try to implement it this way...

> I'm not going to try and claim people wouldn't be so stupid as to try to implement it this way.

They aren't stupid: they are incredibly intelligent.

It was implemented this way to weaponize the DMCA, plain and simple.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#218
post #195

It was admiral that did this: https://blog.getadmiral.com/dmca-easylist-adblock-copyright-... They even clearly state they used the only tool available to them, DCMA. From all the current summaries on this, DMCA does not apply to a line entry in easylist. A domain can be trademarked. This should be added back in. And if github cannot standup to DMCA abuse, then well, easylist and all other developers should be giving…

In which countries could you host, where the DMCA isn't applicable or enforced?

The DMCA is United States-specific. Copyright laws are very widespread and harmonized to some extent by international treaties such as the Berne Convention; a Google search for that term can lead you down the right path. (I'm not trying to explain anything, just give you some good search pointers if you're interested in researching yourself.)

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#219

There has been a growing trend of websites that will ask me to either: a) whitelist their site in my adblocker b) or subscribe to their monthly subscription and keep reading their site with adblocker

Well, it sounds reasonable to ask that question if so many people have Adblock installed?

I have always blocked ads and always (try) will be, but I this is the outcome from Adblock going mainstream. Yes, the ad networks/sites were the reason in the first place, but it doesn't matter. Another side-product is (hidden) "native advertising"... so many tweets/share/likes are purely marketing. That gay marriage article Madonna tweeted? Think twice before you believe he does it out of morals, most likely she is being paid to share that out with her audience.

Re: Ad blocking is under attack

#220
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIUC, the DMCA says that if there's some technological mechanism X that's used to enforce copyright, and a tool Y that is (or can be) used to circumvent X, then making or distributing Y is itself illegal (as opposed to the act of using Y to circumvent X, which is already illegal even without the DMCA). The DMCA then provides a notice-based method for 'taking down' online copies of Y. In this case, X is the Admiral te…

please show me on the doll where easylist caused copyright infringement. admiral provides some service. some people do not want it. the list is not owned by admiral and easylist does not go into the functionalclam website, nor is it a list of results to copyright material. what exactly does a text file do to violate the dmca? this is setting a dangerous precedent.

Did you understand the comment you replied to?

The DMCA is not just about direct copyright infringement, but also about preventing the circumvention of technological protections for copyrighted content.

No one is saying there was copyright infringement here.

You can think that this is super bogus (I sure do) but make sure you understand the nature of what you're mad about. ;-)

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