Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O • Hacker News Board

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#111

Post by olewhalehunter » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

whowouldathunk wrote: post #63

olewhalehunter wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former medical tech developer, the problems in healthcare are almost entirely social/political and the healthcare tech business is making things worse in most respects.

New drugs are making things worse? Tell that to my oncologist friends. STEM is more than CRUD apps.

Fetanyl was a new drug at some point. Pharmaceuticals are over prescribed, healthcare businesses are a leech on the infrastructure, American lifestyles are inherently unhealthy, and no amount of new drug patents are going to fix those problems. Your oncologist friends might have new drugs to prescribe but that doesn't change the core problem of soaring cancer rates due to lifestyle and environmental issues.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#112

Post by Overtonwindow » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

How would this have played in other countries? Is there someone from the U.K. or broader EU that could weigh in? I seem to recall that other countries have greater protections for speaking ones mind like this, which would have protected the author from termination.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#113

Post by ebola1717 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

otterley wrote: post #70

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #25

Wow, I'd never imagine to read this piece in NY Times.

Why is that? David Brooks has been a conservative editorial commentator for a long time there.

Yeah, like, there's a climate change denier in the NYT op-ed section. NYT isn't DemocracyNow - it's editorial team has range.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#114

Post by sever5 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #18

Shank wrote: post #8

Honestly, I think he made the right move just from a PR perspective. His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. The author of the manifesto caused Google a PR disaster and created a huge state of internal conflict, valid or not. The shareholders are probably really happy that their CEO removed a person who managed to get Google so much bad press in so little time. This is the reali…

The leakers caused the bad press, not Damore. (Unless he was the leaker, of course...)

My guess is an SJW was trying to make an example of Damore, the condemnations and soap-boxing came incredibly fast, this backfired obviously.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#115

Post by whowouldathunk » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

UK-AL wrote: post #64

eganist wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the argument being made by advocates for women in STEM. The mission (I among one of many adherents to it) is to open pathways in STEM up to women who are choosing not to pursue it because of socioeconomic blockers. Blockers such as this guy. Anyway, the real position being pushed by Women in Tech/STEM movements is that anyone can/should be free to work in any career and not expect e.g. pay differences and…

The more free the genders are, the more they tend to polarise on certain careers. Since they tend to pursue what they prefer. I'm all for having no blockers for people choosing what careers they want. However people will move towards there preferences, and there preferences will be set either by nature or culture.

> there preferences will be set either by nature or culture.

Culture is something that hiring practices can change.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#116

Post by WalterSear » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

agentultra wrote: post #89

endorphone wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The firing has been a PR disaster, and amplified and exaggerated the effect of this issue (not to mention that it drew attention to other factors, like Google's institutional ageism). And while I don't want to diagnose over the internet, it seems like it's attacking someone on the spectrum for traits of being on the spectrum. By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, and doubled down on this discussion.…

> By firing him they made him a hero to enormous groups, To a small, vocal group. > By doing it in an anti-science, anti-evidence way There were good reasons for doing it that had nothing to do with science or evidence. There are women working at Google who do not need to be reminded of the genetic and biologic differences they have from their cishet male counterparts. If Damon had issues with the policies at Google…

He didn't circulate one. He sent it to a mailing list which purported to be a safe place for open, honest sharing of opinions regarding diversity and hiring.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#117

Post by GreaterFool » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

This is the first fair and balanced article on this topic I've seen.

> In his memo, Damore cites a series of studies, making the case, for example, that men tend to be more interested in things and women more interested in people. (Interest is not the same as ability.)

I've been trying to hammer this point to all my colleagues (in private of course, I wouldn't dare to post it on public channel due to high probability of getting decapitated!): interests/preferences not abilities.

Every time someone says the memo is denigrating women by telling them they are unfit or incapable of working in tech it makes me want to scream! It is not about any individual's ability but about preferences of a group. It might as well be that the arguments don't support the conclusion. But I haven't seen anyone offering a reasonable rebuttal that doesn't involve name-calling and blanket statements like "the author clearly doesn't understand gender".

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#118

Post by arihant » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

No he should not. That letter was a disaster. While some of the points in that letter could have sparked valuable debate, one simply can't get away with a written claim that his coworkers are biologically incompetant to do their jobs.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#119

Post by aaron-lebo » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

ubertaco wrote: post #74

aaron-lebo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By and large the people outraged about this are the crazy men's rights, reactionary, Trumpist, Alex Jones mob that have been looking for things like this to be outraged for the past 30 years. Everyone wants to be a victim. Damore isn't a victim of anything but bad judgment. If he's hero of the mob, so what.

Paraphrased: By and large the people outraged about this are...people we don't like, whose opinions don't matter, and who I think should be marginalized anyways. If he's the hero of people we don't like, so what.

As a Southern white male from a conservative background, I don't want to be marginalized.

But when I see the rabid way people are defending the guy like he wrote the Federalist Papers, who at best is guilty of being unaware that what he was saying is controversial, I don't feel outraged if he got fired in a massive company known for its liberal views. What did he expect?

He's not helping it by making himself a darling of the right wing media. That and lowball jabs at political correctness and Marxism make it a little too obvious where his sympathies lie and if he really wanted an objective debate picking sides doesn't help.

Re: Sundar Pichai Should Resign as Google’s C.E.O

#120

Post by Tasboo » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #38

Shank wrote: post #8

Honestly, I think he made the right move just from a PR perspective. His firing makes sense: the CEO and HR are both acting to protect the company. The author of the manifesto caused Google a PR disaster and created a huge state of internal conflict, valid or not. The shareholders are probably really happy that their CEO removed a person who managed to get Google so much bad press in so little time. This is the reali…

Incidentally, what Damore did is probably a 'concerted protected activity' (his stated goal is to take actions that improve working conditions by making the job less stressful, increase diversity, etc) covered by the NLRB, and thus Google quite possibly broke the law in firing him for the memo. That's not protecting the company. EDIT: I forgot to add that from the coverage I've seen, there are also claims that Google…

Damore can claim he was protecting the company, but if the effect of what he said in his memo is causing the opposite of that, then it can be a fire-able offense, regardless of what he said he was trying to do.