Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams • Hacker News Board

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#271

Post by posguy » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 9:46 AM UTC

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #151

posguy wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like its a quick way to get your kids sick with some nasty ass diseases, West Coast private schools are a petri dish with a ton of unvaccinated kids. Considering the Catholic Church runs most of these schools, the local diocese need to crack down and not endanger their student body with these nasty ass, bug chasing parents & their unvaccinated children! https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/09/wealthy-…

You talk about "nasty ass diseases" and them go on to talk about the religious affiliation of those schools. The obvious XKCD notwithstanding, I hope the humor and stereotype reference there is not lost on readers.

Its so odd, seeing that when I was in Catholic School they'd have kicked me out had I not been vaccinated, but now private schools in Washington State are basically the only place you can easily skip vaccination.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#272

Post by jonbarker » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 12:20 PM UTC

kashkhan wrote: post #266

jonbarker wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the industrial manufacturing based economy people could get good jobs without basic undergraduate 'skills'. Now in the knowledge economy, they can't.

yes, and that's why they should go to college and learn those skills.

It used to be that community college was the place to go if you lacked the credentials to go straight into a 'real' college now that I think about it. Is this not the case any more?

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#273

Post by romanovcode » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 1:49 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #84

The level of elitism in this thread is staggering. Should kids that are not at the top of their class be left to work in the salt mines? Do we just abandon the idea of educating people and make all universities a private "smart people only" club? The CSU system's mandate is to provide accessible education to all Californians . Ragging on them for working towards that goal makes no sense. The UC system is still the mo…

"smart people only"

Isn't that the whole point of university? I don't get it.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#274

Post by msla » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 5:52 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #268

msla wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. Hasn't always been. Look up the history of race sometime. Race is politics and not biology. I mean wow.

Are you saying Germans and Slavs and Italians aren't the same race, i.e. Caucasian? That's what you were stating. I understand the origins of race, but you implied they weren't the same race.

Maybe they're the same race now, but historically it hasn't been that simple.

Hell, Italians and Irish haven't always been considered White.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#275

Post by kashkhan » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 9:16 PM UTC

jonbarker wrote: post #272

kashkhan wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, and that's why they should go to college and learn those skills.

It used to be that community college was the place to go if you lacked the credentials to go straight into a 'real' college now that I think about it. Is this not the case any more?

lack the credentials or money to pay.

'real' colleges offer better networking, but often great teachers can be found in community colleges, where profs are not selected primarily for research.

A minority of students learn better in competitive environments. Self motivated students learn better in constructive non competitive environments which are more like apprenticeships than competition for grades.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#276

Post by Nickersf » Thu, Aug 10, 2017, 9:41 PM UTC

tnzn wrote: post #132

Nickersf wrote: post #59

Let's just drop meritocracy all together. Everything is subjective, right? Seriously though, I'm worried about our future as a spieces. The knowledge and technologies we have developed, which require nurturing. We nurture modern civilization by making sure the smartest get into positions where they can express their intellect. Part of that process needs to be keeping rigours standards in place when it comes to educat…

Actually meritocracy is bullshit really. How can you measure merit ? By the outcomes ? Are you seriously believing outcomes measure merit ? If so I have bad news for you. As for the argument that society will collapse because of the democratization of education and degrees and whatnot,it's at least a hundred years old argument. In France the right-wing has been whining about it for 50 years (especially regarding math…

Your last paragraph is filled with a lot of ideologically loaded terms. "Democratize", "Right-wing"...

Okay here's a good example:

A company hires and pays a person to do job a, said person has skills and knowledge of topics x and y and gets the job done using skills x and y.

The same company hires person b, who doesn't have skills x and y, but still has the accreditation. Person b, doesn't get the job done, still gets paid and the company did not have the problem solved, or service/product to sell.

Further, if we don't set rigorous standards for admission and graduation the smarter people have their accreditations devalued. Additionally, employers and other agencies will not know who they are getting.

The idea lowering standards so 'anyone' can get into anything is dangerous, and creates chaos. It's anti-progressive.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#277

Post by 0x10101 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 1:06 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #243

0x10101 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that there is some flexibility, but the basic move is to grant credit for remediation [see below]. Whether that means turning the intro courses into multiple semester courses or giving credit for summer prep. The problems with basing placements on high school grades is why they had to create the assessments in the first place. The better solution is the early assessment program, but since California has…

> but the basic move is to grant credit for remediation [see below]. Your quote does not really support that description; it suggests that they will be directed into either non-remedial for-credit courses with additional tutoring or other support, or courses with the same content (and credit) as non-remedial courses but a stretched timeframe. The former is clearly not credit for remediation (the only “remediation” is…

I think the point is- courses that cover material that used to be considered below college level will now be given college credit. Or courses that cover college material will now be stretched into two semesters, doubling their credit. The logical result of this is that the material level that is covered in college will go down, as people will be using up credits on lower level courses.

HS graduation exams are useful feature of most successful school systems. That so many people were passing those but still requiring remedial instruction indicates that there was something lacking. However, if graduation rate is the metric you are optimizing for, there is no need to pull those in.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#278

Post by 0x10101 » Fri, Aug 11, 2017, 1:10 PM UTC

kashkhan wrote: post #265

0x10101 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People should learn things as they want, and not be required to meet arbitrary standards and degrees to obtain societal benefits." Then don't ask me to pay for you to do so. Check some books out of the library. People are paying a lot of money to universities in exchange get a better life for themselves. If it doesn't improve their skills in any measurable way, we should try something else.

thats ok. we are in a transitional phase. Most of what you learn in college goes to waste anyway. College proves that you can start something and finish it. Like you can do engineering, but even graduates of MIT need years in industry to learn the actual skills needed for their jobs.

If the goal of college is just to prove you can prove that you can do start something and finish it, we can find a lot cheaper ways of doing that. You can even get a job that doesn't require college to prove that.