And meanwhile I'm dreaming about making more than 500 euro/month working as a ASP.NET/C# dev
Eastern europe?
A note on programmer salaries
111–120 of 230 posts
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#112By looking at her Linkedin, it is easy to see what companies she is talking about, some big names up there. I think her viewpoint is a bit naive though. Of course a company will pay market rate in a european city if that is what it takes to be competitive. The fact that they pay their US employees more might create tensions inside the company but in the end is just down to the fact that the market there is completely…
Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.
Berlin wages are really low in my experience. After taxes maybe 2000-3000 euros per month.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you can build and deploy a webapp from zero to nothing you could make 120k usd in San Francisco, cause that's what bootcamp grads are doing and pretty much the only thing they bring to the table is webapp skills. Visa and etc might make it harder for you, but if it were me I'd start browsing for remote positions at San Francisco companies.
$120k is San Fran could easily be a worse quality of life than $40k in Central America (too broad to say for certain).
I've seen this sentiment posted before and it's pretty much untrue. At 120k/year, even spending 4K/month on rent, your leftover pay is still more than my gross salary. I know SF is expensive, but if you can't have a nice QOL on a the leftovers of a 120k salary, your location isn't the problem.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.
Berlin wages are really low in my experience. After taxes maybe 2000-3000 euros per month.
That is exactly why I am asking. When I investigated Berlin I was rather surprised by how low the wages are.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#115Re: A note on programmer salaries
#116> And negotiate.
Even better, negotiate collectively. It's easy to lay off one person but you cannot lay off a whole branch (or all employees ideally).
I know I'm dreaming but there are decades if not centuries of experiences of worker struggles about better salaries or working condition. And well, there are just basics, to be learnt about. If you are on a one-by-one negotiating with your boss in private, then you are in an environment where you've already lost.
It's no surprise that in all other industries salaries working conditions are negotiated (and fought for) collectively.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#117I mean, it's pretty simple, but it took a long time to internalize: If you don't have anyone else making you an offer, then you're worth that amount. In this case, you were worth $42k and $56k respectively. If you'd shopped around, you'd have been worth more. But you didn't, so you weren't. That's not a bad thing, either. Security is nice, and interviews are a pain. But it really is that simple. If you don't like you…
It's not that simple, because the other option is don't work. If you value your time more than anyone is willing to pay, that means your value is greater than your highest offer.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "that's what you're worth" Your argument is sound, but this is really unfortunate phrasing. It's actually what your work is worth. Not what you as a person is worth, and it's important to keep those things separate, both for sanity and rigor.
Your value to society is the value of your work which in everyone else's context is your value. No one cares if your apartment is clean which is why no one pays you to clean your apartment.
which is also why our society has a huge problem about child-rearing and old age care.
it has value to society, massive value. If no-one does it, society collapses pretty quickly.
But we don't pay people (women, mostly) to do it.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#119I am continually surprised that _anyone_ in tech signs employment contracts in Europe. If you're good, and know how to work well remotely, contract work at 130-150€/hr is plentiful. Working 32 (billable) hrs/wk with 6 weeks vacation - more or less what you'd do as an Employee - that's an income between 190-220k. But every employment contract I've heard of here (France and Germany) maxes out at 90-100k for even director level positions.
I'm still shocked by it every time. Especially since the same person who makes you that offer will complain that it's so hard to find talent. What a surprise! Who would think, it's hard to hire people by offering less than half their market rate.
Re: A note on programmer salaries
#120The mansplaining in this thread is off the scale
What does gender have to do with this topic?
Why do you think the comments are from Men?
Why would it matter if that was the case?
Not being smug or attacking, genuinely trying to understand what problem you're talking about and why it matters.