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Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

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Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#211

Post by notreallythough »

moonbug22 wrote: post #106
ExactoKnight wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other project that needs to become a reality FAST is the construction of a telescope large enough to measure the spectra of exoplanets. Because once you find a habitable planet with oxygen in its atmosphere, you now have an irrefutable and pressing case to move fast with Breakthrough Starshot. Sadly it's going to likely a require 100metre telescope mirror or larger, and current science funding only has a 30metre…

You know about the SKA, right?

pick it up pick it up pick it up

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#212

Post by secfirstmd »

WalterBright wrote: post #196
BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless they can explain to their shareholders what the benefit of that overwhelmingly long-term investment will be I don't see it happening. Maybe after SpaceX becomes a massively profitable company in the same vein as the tech giants, but not before. Bill Gates also made it painfully clear that he wants his money to go to issues we can resolve right now here on Earth like renewable energy, clean water, fighting dise…

> benefit Easy: Marketing the brand name. Imagine a rocket with Google painted on the side on the evening news. Updates on the construction and progress, all mentioning Google. Google setting up a Google Center that collects all the data coming down. Every discovery has Google's name attached to it. Etc.

Great, any even bigger platform for Google to hoover up peoples data.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#213

Post by imron »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #186
CamperBob2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's expecting Eritrea to put a satellite in orbit. Worth pointing out that Ghana just did. If we waited until we "solve all our problems here at home," as the GP suggests, we'd still be calling to each other from neighboring trees in a jungle somewhere.

Slightly pedantic but it's also worth pointing out that Ghana basically used Japanese technology, academic resources and equipment to launch the satellite.

So what you're saying is, if the US or someone else develops amazing new space telescope technology, Ghana will eventually be able to buy it from them instead of the Japanese.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#214

Post by shpx »

spenczar5 wrote: post #129
ExactoKnight wrote: post #101

I am flabbergasted that as a society we aren't rushing to build a 100 metre wide telescope mirror large enough for us to directly image the spectra of the potentially habitable exoplanets around us. A telescope this large could tell us whether any of these potentially habitable planets contain oxygen, and thus, biological processes. Yet thanks to funding cuts in science the biggest telescope we have in the pipeline r…

Very large telescopes can achieve great resolving power, but they run up against atmospheric turbulence, particularly in many of the spectral regions we care about for checking out exoplanets. Radio light passes right through the atmosphere for the most part, which is why you see very large radio telescopes, but they're not very practical for infrared or visible light scopes. Space-based telescopes are a better avenu…

Telescopes exploiting quantum effects would be able to be much smaller and have higher resolution.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/how-to-build-a-qua...

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#215

Post by hueving »

bpodgursky wrote: post #188
hueving wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am flabbergasted that as a society we aren't rushing to build a 100 metre wide telescope mirror large enough for us to directly image the spectra of the potentially habitable exoplanets around us. This is because most of society is still struggling with day-to-day tasks like getting housing, clean water, reliable food, healthcare and dealing with physical conflicts. Even people rich enough to not be stuck in the s…

The world had less reliable housing, less clean water, less reliable food, worse healthcare, and more physical conflicts in the 60s, and we still had the Apollo program put people on the moon. Only the most pathetic hacks would argue that we are the worse for having invested that money to push the bounds of exploration. At a point, there are 6 billion people on the earth, and there will always be _some_ problems unso…

>and more physical conflicts in the 60s, and we still had the Apollo program put people on the moon.

The Apollo program was part of the space race against the SU. See my comment about conflicts motivating people to invest in this stuff.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#216

Post by imron »

andrepd wrote: post #210
ExactoKnight wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is there. U.S. military spending far exceeds spending on science. By another commentators estimate, the 100 Metre Telescope would cost ~$15 billion to build. In comparison the F-35 fighter jet program cost $168 billion, and in 10 years the U.S. will spend roughly $5.5 trillion on its military.

The point is that if you can convince people to demand a budget cuts for the military, they will almost surely demand to allocate the funds to more pressing needs than space exploration. Most people would sooner want that money spend on things that could improve their lives in a tangible and immediate way than spend it on something that does not benefit them directly in any way.

I guess we need to discover life on another planet, to convince the military to start spending its budget on space related technology.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#217

Post by hueving »

ExactoKnight wrote: post #183
gnaritas wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been nearly 100 years since anyone struggled with that in the West. You have go to be joking.

You can nitpick the exceptions, but his general point about affluent living standards existing for 100 years in the West for most people is true.

If it were an exception, we wouldn't be having a debate about healthcare coverage in the US.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#218

Post by ExactoKnight »

andrepd wrote: post #210
ExactoKnight wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The money is there. U.S. military spending far exceeds spending on science. By another commentators estimate, the 100 Metre Telescope would cost ~$15 billion to build. In comparison the F-35 fighter jet program cost $168 billion, and in 10 years the U.S. will spend roughly $5.5 trillion on its military.

The point is that if you can convince people to demand a budget cuts for the military, they will almost surely demand to allocate the funds to more pressing needs than space exploration. Most people would sooner want that money spend on things that could improve their lives in a tangible and immediate way than spend it on something that does not benefit them directly in any way.

Sure, it doesn't need to be all or nothing.

The point is to grab perspective about how achievable these goals are, using money that's being wasted in such large supply right now on tools to kill people.

If we found strong evidence of life existing on another exoplanet (due to finding oxygen in the emission spectrum of an exoplanet's atmosphere), it would be a game changer. A story of the year, and influence the outcome of the rest of our century.

It would compel, very likely spending on space probes and exploration to go way back up to levels seen in the 1960's or even higher. That was a time when we had both robust spending on space exploration and social programs...

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#219

Post by kiba »

bpodgursky wrote: post #188
hueving wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I am flabbergasted that as a society we aren't rushing to build a 100 metre wide telescope mirror large enough for us to directly image the spectra of the potentially habitable exoplanets around us. This is because most of society is still struggling with day-to-day tasks like getting housing, clean water, reliable food, healthcare and dealing with physical conflicts. Even people rich enough to not be stuck in the s…

The world had less reliable housing, less clean water, less reliable food, worse healthcare, and more physical conflicts in the 60s, and we still had the Apollo program put people on the moon. Only the most pathetic hacks would argue that we are the worse for having invested that money to push the bounds of exploration. At a point, there are 6 billion people on the earth, and there will always be _some_ problems unso…

Money isn't the problem here. It's mainly a political problem.

Once you resolve the issue of poor political leadership, the problem basically solve itself as money and investment engender a positive feedback loop that take care of itself.

Re: Four Earth-sized planets detected orbiting the nearest sun-like star

#220

Post by rb666 »

ugh123 wrote: post #168
ExactoKnight wrote: post #101

I am flabbergasted that as a society we aren't rushing to build a 100 metre wide telescope mirror large enough for us to directly image the spectra of the potentially habitable exoplanets around us. A telescope this large could tell us whether any of these potentially habitable planets contain oxygen, and thus, biological processes. Yet thanks to funding cuts in science the biggest telescope we have in the pipeline r…

I'm all in favor of science funding, especially projects that drive and give back technology capabilities to society. But I would like to see more balance and preference to solve hunger and poverty around the world. To me that question is high on the list as well. And preferably more so.

What is the point of solving hunger and poverty when we are unable to solve climate change? Having more people and more people who can afford luxuries will only make that problem worse. I know it's a tough argument to swallow, but that doesn't make it less true.
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