Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

medium.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 118 posts

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#61

Post by archagon »

nether wrote: post #58
archagon wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel MeFi is a bit allergic to the politics of HN. For example, the recent Google discussion would have gone over very differently there. (I say this without passing judgement, since I tend to ping-pong back and forth between both sites.)

If you want a taste of MeFi politics, here's a fun one: http://www.metafilter.com/151267/Wheres-My-Cut-On-Unpaid-Emo...

I do in fact love those kinds of MeFi threads, and I credit them with broadening my understanding of the world and helping me become a better feminist. I think many HN users wouldn't feel comfortable in that sort of discussion, however.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#62

Post by cowpatcallr »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56
rwallace wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's valid to prioritize access on the basis of social status, but I do think it's valid to prioritize need before entertainment. If you're playing a game and someone comes along who needs to fill out a job application form and there are no free terminals, you have a moral obligation to give up your seat.

I'd disagree with this. Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Many games also require a certain amount of time to complete, and some games have severe penalties associated with leaving because it ruins the experience for all the other players. One way to deal with this situation is to disallow entertainment on certain computers. That way there are always computers available. Still, in the era of everybody ha…

That is ridiculous.

You think that someone who wants to play WoW in a library is of the same importance as someone finishing a highschool assignment in the library because their parents can't afford a computer at home?

Get real.

How about going back to library of alexander and letting the commoners play dice games in it.

> Entertainment is one of the basic human needs.

Ok, if you believe that, then fine. But where is it writ-large that entertainment == playing video games on a free, public library computer? There's lots of entertaining books in the library too. Grab one and sit quietly on a chair if free entertainment is so important to you.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#63

Post by dubyah »

sien wrote: post #28
dws wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I've been hanging around Metafilter for many years. There have been changes since it ran on a box under Matt's desk, but "used to be amazing" to "going downhill"? Not seeing it. It's still one of the most civil places around.

It is very civil. But that's because it's an echo chamber where everyone must have the same views. The parent is dead right. MeFi was interesting was then was civil disagreement. Everyone piling on and 'favouriting' how bad Conservatives | Trump | Business | Capitalism | Libertarians | Rupert Murdoch are is very dull. It's still good for some funny cat pictures and stuff though. Oh, and just for HN readers, MeFi thes…

The site has always skewed left of center for as long as I can remember. But you don't even need to go that far to the right to reach dissent. The shift towards identity politics over the past 10(?) years has been pretty insufferable. I know some people have avoided the blue for a number of years and others have given up on the site altogether.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#64

Post by Mz »

markbnine wrote: post #25

Our local library is more like a free internet shop with half the terminals taken up by transients and the other half by kids from the nearby jr. high, playing shoot-em ups. It's impossible to get a terminal. They also have a huge DVD collection that rivals the old blockbusters. Not sure who's checking out books anymore.

Your library has terrible policies. Good libraries have policies in place for allotting computer time fairly in order to adequately serve all members.

Your library may also be underfunded. This is an issue for a lot of libraries.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#65

Post by qbrass »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56
rwallace wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's valid to prioritize access on the basis of social status, but I do think it's valid to prioritize need before entertainment. If you're playing a game and someone comes along who needs to fill out a job application form and there are no free terminals, you have a moral obligation to give up your seat.

I'd disagree with this. Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Many games also require a certain amount of time to complete, and some games have severe penalties associated with leaving because it ruins the experience for all the other players. One way to deal with this situation is to disallow entertainment on certain computers. That way there are always computers available. Still, in the era of everybody ha…

If kids are in dire need of entertainment, they can read a book or something. There's no obligation to provide people with any form of entertainment they desire.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#66

Post by sillysaurus3 »

cowpatcallr wrote: post #62
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd disagree with this. Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Many games also require a certain amount of time to complete, and some games have severe penalties associated with leaving because it ruins the experience for all the other players. One way to deal with this situation is to disallow entertainment on certain computers. That way there are always computers available. Still, in the era of everybody ha…

That is ridiculous. You think that someone who wants to play WoW in a library is of the same importance as someone finishing a highschool assignment in the library because their parents can't afford a computer at home? Get real. How about going back to library of alexander and letting the commoners play dice games in it. > Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Ok, if you believe that, then fine. But where is…

No, not WoW. You can leave WoW whenever you want and come back later. It also consumes huge amounts of time, so it's not at all the same.

Dota / LoL / CSgo matches last an hour and have severe penalties for leaving, and they are very popular at internet cafes so I wouldn't be surprised if that was what's being played.

Let's be honest: that highschooler will almost certainly spend as much or more time on Facebook than on their assignment. The poorer the person, the more likely this becomes.

Meanwhile you get to use that extremely-uncommon corner case to penalize everybody else just because you dislike video games.

Those people reserved their computer time like everybody else. You don't get a say in how they use it as long as they're following the rules. It's doubly important to protect a shared public resource: we live in an era where anyone can attack X as immoral, especially when X is harmless.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#67

Post by mschaef »

packetslave wrote: post #12

As an aside, Jessamyn is also the daughter of Tom West (of Data General and "Soul of a New Machine" fame).

It took me longer than I'd like to admit to get around to reading it, but that book's an absolute classic if you like the story of how things are built.

A few others:

* Kerry Nietz - FoxTales (FoxPro, mostly pre-Microsoft)

* Mary Walton - Car: A Drama of the American Workplace

* Chase Morsey Jr. - The Man Who Saved the V8 (Ford's flathead V8)

* Dealers of Lightning (Xerox PARC)

Related to that last, there's also a great Youtube video on the development of the laser printer. It goes into all sorts of details regarding the design of the laser scanning system, some corporate politics, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Z6JNnIXgo&t=3297s

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#68

Post by Mz »

qbrass wrote: post #65
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd disagree with this. Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Many games also require a certain amount of time to complete, and some games have severe penalties associated with leaving because it ruins the experience for all the other players. One way to deal with this situation is to disallow entertainment on certain computers. That way there are always computers available. Still, in the era of everybody ha…

If kids are in dire need of entertainment, they can read a book or something. There's no obligation to provide people with any form of entertainment they desire.

Playing games and other "frivolous" activities are a primary source of learning computer literacy for children. If you say poor kids can't play games on a public computer, you are putting them at a serious disadvantage compared to their wealthier peers, who are much more likely to have access to computers at home and generally have more computer time and latitude. You are putting an additional burden of restriction on an already disadvantaged group.

Years ago, I sent my mother-in-law our old computer when we upgraded, and I made sure to include kid-friendly software on it so my very poor nieces and nephews would have reason to get on their grandmother's computer when they were at her house. I saw this as a very important element in trying to make sure they didn't wind up on the wrong side of the digital divide. At the time, computers were not nearly as central to modern life as they are currently.

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#69

Post by pavel_lishin »

cowpatcallr wrote: post #62
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd disagree with this. Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Many games also require a certain amount of time to complete, and some games have severe penalties associated with leaving because it ruins the experience for all the other players. One way to deal with this situation is to disallow entertainment on certain computers. That way there are always computers available. Still, in the era of everybody ha…

That is ridiculous. You think that someone who wants to play WoW in a library is of the same importance as someone finishing a highschool assignment in the library because their parents can't afford a computer at home? Get real. How about going back to library of alexander and letting the commoners play dice games in it. > Entertainment is one of the basic human needs. Ok, if you believe that, then fine. But where is…

> But where is it writ-large that entertainment == playing video games on a free, public library computer? There's lots of entertaining books in the library too. Grab one and sit quietly on a chair if free entertainment is so important to you.

Who are you to dictate which fun is Proper and Allowed?

Re: Jessamyn West, Technology Lady (2015)

#70

Post by vvanders »

mschaef wrote: post #67
packetslave wrote: post #12

As an aside, Jessamyn is also the daughter of Tom West (of Data General and "Soul of a New Machine" fame).

It took me longer than I'd like to admit to get around to reading it, but that book's an absolute classic if you like the story of how things are built. A few others: * Kerry Nietz - FoxTales (FoxPro, mostly pre-Microsoft) * Mary Walton - Car: A Drama of the American Workplace * Chase Morsey Jr. - The Man Who Saved the V8 (Ford's flathead V8) * Dealers of Lightning (Xerox PARC) Related to that last, there's also a gr…

The PARC book is a must, so many things that are the foundation of our industry were invented there.
Post reply on HN