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Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

economist.com

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Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#131

Post by ghaff »

eutropia wrote: post #122
NegativeLatency wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget maintenance, insurance, and gas costs

Do we seriously spend 1 thousand billion dollars per year personally getting our asses around with cars after it's all said and done? Holy crap. That's more than 5% of GDP.

I haven't checked the numbers but it doesn't surprise me. A car is the most expensive or second most expensive asset that most people own. (And/or they spend a lot of money on taxi/Uber/Lyft/etc.) And most people spend a decent chunk of their days getting from Point A to Point B. Only some of that is commuting.

The cost of not being a subsistence farmer, I suppose. (Somewhat joking, but a big part of what makes modern civilization possible is mobility and a lot of that requires cars. In some situations, they're less important but they're still common pretty much anywhere.)

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#132

Post by taheca »

ghaff wrote: post #19
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not banning, but charging higher tolls for empty cars than cars that have a load or person in them. Econ 101!

It may be Econ 101 but a lot of people (aka voters) tend not to like fee schemes that make it blindingly obvious that the wealthy are effectively allowed to use public infrastructure in ways that they are not.

Doesn't seem to be that way in America. At all.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#133

Post by taheca »

curun1r wrote: post #74
bryanlarsen wrote: post #2

Anytime you make something cheaper, easier to use, more useful and/or more efficient you get an increase in usage. Autonomous electric cars are all 4, and will lead to a dramatic increase in the number of miles driven. Some of those miles we can imagine (for instance sending your car on a dead-head journey somewhere for somebody else to use it), but most of the increase will probably be from new usage models that we…

> But congestion? That's going to get a lot worse, it's not going to be the utopia that people here seem to expect. Some congestion, but other congestion will get better. Parking shortage is a form of congestion that will get better when cars can drop you off rather than needing to find a parking space. Also, circling and searching for parking when there's little available causes congestion. There's few more frustrat…

Elon has already said that this is coming to Tesla. Super exciting stuff.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#134

Post by randyrand »

>The World Health Organisation says that it is the single largest environmental health risk, with outdoor air pollution contributing to 3.7m deaths a year.

I hate this metric. Its nearly meaningless to the average person. Why not report it for what it is, days of lost life expectancy per person?

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#135

Post by randyrand »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #109
bwanab wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Congestion? I don't think you're taking into account the huge advantage that autonomous cars have with respect to coordination among themselves. Much, if not most, congestion is caused by human drivers attempting to accrue advantage to themselves through maneuvers that disadvantage everybody else on the road.

No most of congestion is caused by the spacial inefficiency of car based infrastructure. Cars are big and roads have fixed capacity. Autonomous cars will not significantly change this.

Watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wm-pZp_mi0

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#136

Post by blacksmith_tb »

Waterluvian wrote: post #115
bryanlarsen wrote: post #2

Anytime you make something cheaper, easier to use, more useful and/or more efficient you get an increase in usage. Autonomous electric cars are all 4, and will lead to a dramatic increase in the number of miles driven. Some of those miles we can imagine (for instance sending your car on a dead-head journey somewhere for somebody else to use it), but most of the increase will probably be from new usage models that we…

My amateur expectation is that if 100% of vehicles are autonomous, they can be FAR better drivers and you could get far more cars on the same roads with considerably less stopping and waiting. The problem will be when fewer than 100% of vehicles are autonomous, then it will simply remain as awful as it is today.

Certainly many slowdowns on highways and major roads stem from awkward, inefficient merging traffic - I can imagine autonomous cars would come together like the teeth of a perfectly smooth zipper.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#137

Post by Aron »

overcast wrote: post #126
Aron wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory that people will treat gas cars like they treated smokers. There was a stretch of time where smoking was popular in restaurants but the common shtick was the table next to you would go 'ewww!' and wave their hands around their nose or faux-cough causing all kinds of conflict and pressure. Pedestrians at stop signs might do the same for ICEs, etc.

Difference here is that transportation is a daily requirement. Smoking is not. It's just a disgusting habit.

Sure, but most people will assume the person made the choice to pick an ICE and treat it like a disgusting habit\decision that's ruining their environment, even if many hold off judgement.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#138

Post by Aron »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #97
Aron wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a theory that people will treat gas cars like they treated smokers. There was a stretch of time where smoking was popular in restaurants but the common shtick was the table next to you would go 'ewww!' and wave their hands around their nose or faux-cough causing all kinds of conflict and pressure. Pedestrians at stop signs might do the same for ICEs, etc.

>Pedestrians at stop signs might do the same for ICEs, etc. Two groups of people will drive ICEs in that future. Poor people who are still driving 2023 Camrys and rich people driving higher end or enthusiast target ICE stuff. More than a few in the latter group will consider such an attempt at shaming them as an invitation to spin the tires all the way through the intersection when the light turns green. Tire smoke s…

I don't think it'll be that simple. There will be plenty of people who hold on to ICEs for no good reason but habit. When prompted they will say head-scratching things like 'I like the way it sounds' or 'it's safer from hacking' or 'God put dead algae in the ground billions of years ago for a reason'.

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#139

Post by OrwellianChild »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not banning, but charging higher tolls for empty cars than cars that have a load or person in them. Econ 101!

I wonder if we could start charging tolls proportional to the spot congestion at any given time.

Washington state does this on the lanes that are otherwise HOV on I-405, which runs N/S through Bellevue (Expedia, Microsoft) and meets up with 520 E/W to Redmond (Microsoft). The tolls are proportional to demand, and they often hit the upper max of $10 each way. [1]

It's astonishing how much some people are willing to pay for the pleasure of driving free of traffic... We should charge them as much as they are willing to pay...

[1] http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/the-...

Re: Electric cars: The death of the internal combustion engine

#140

Post by stcredzero »

eutropia wrote: post #122
NegativeLatency wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget maintenance, insurance, and gas costs

Do we seriously spend 1 thousand billion dollars per year personally getting our asses around with cars after it's all said and done? Holy crap. That's more than 5% of GDP.

Shoe leather wasn't cheap in the middle ages, and leather soles used to wear out all of the time. Transport is something people are willing to pay for.
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