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Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

reuters.com

81–90 of 110 posts

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is how confirmation bias works. 'Something about this study feels fishy... what about these anecdotes?' You did call yourself out for being anecdotal, so I'm sure you see it. As a fellow daily smoker I very much want to pick holes in this as well.

True and I agree. But I think lifestyle choice has a lot to do with this sickness. I was never conscious about my health until about 3 years ago when I quit "smoking" and began only to vaporize. Maybe that has something to do with it. But I really think a lot of this sickness are results of a sedentary lifestyle. Something we knew was bad when we discovered sitting was the new cancer.

Totally with you there. I've been oscillating between smoking and vaporizing, and running and not running lately. I feel best, by a gigantic margin, when I am vaping and running >4x / week. I guess that's kind of a no brainer. I think you are correct that this has a lot to do with other factors. I know some lazy stoners, and I've been that lazy stoner.

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#82

>> "If marijuana use is implicated in cardiovascular diseases and deaths, then it rests on the health community and policy makers to protect the public." Like how the policy makers protect the public from Alcohol, tobacco, and over-the-counter meds? Also a 1200 person study isn't really enough to draw any major conclusions from. Of course ingesting anything substance of any kind frequently over a period of time is bo…

I was looking for more information about the #s involved. Is my risk going from .00001% to .00003%? What am I really looking at, here?

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#83

>> "If marijuana use is implicated in cardiovascular diseases and deaths, then it rests on the health community and policy makers to protect the public." Like how the policy makers protect the public from Alcohol, tobacco, and over-the-counter meds? Also a 1200 person study isn't really enough to draw any major conclusions from. Of course ingesting anything substance of any kind frequently over a period of time is bo…

There are a couple of things about this study that are puzzling to me.

First, I'm a little confused about how to interpret the finding that hypertension related deaths increased, but not stroke or heart attack; I have not been aware of hypertension as a common direct cause of death. For example the textbook "Cardiology Explained" states that: "If untreated, hypertension has serious consequences, including renal disease, myocardial infarction (MI), and cerebrovascular accident." Most general literature that I can recall reading seemed to similarly characterize high blood pressure as a risk factor for other causes of death.

Second, the author of study states "Support for liberal marijuana use is partly due to claims that it is beneficial and possibly not harmful to health." Who is supporting "liberal marijuana use"? Support for "liberal use" is not implied by support for decriminalization.

I hope that press release has left out some sort of context or attribution for this, because it is making it hard for me to take the study seriously.

Here is the meat of the abstract, and a link to the full text of the study: http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/2047487317723212

"Method: We linked participants aged 20 years and above, who responded to questions on marijuana use during the 2005 US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey to data from the 2011 public-use linked mortality file of the National Center for Health Statistics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Only participants eligible for mor- tality follow-up were included. We conducted Cox proportional hazards regression analyses to estimate hazard ratios for hypertension, heart disease, and cerebrovascular mortality due to marijuana use. We controlled for cigarette smoking and other relevant variables.

Results: Of the 1213 eligible participants 72.5% were presumed to be alive. The total follow-up time was 19,569 person-years. Adjusted hazard ratios for death from hypertension among marijuana users compared to non-marijuana users was 3.42 (95% confidence interval: 1.20–9.79) and for each year of marijuana use was 1.04 (95% confidence interval:1.00–1.07).

Conclusion: From our results, marijuana use may increase the risk for hypertension mortality. Increased duration of marijuana use is associated with increased risk of death from hypertension. Recreational marijuana use potentially has cardiovascular adverse effects which needs further investigation."

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#84
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold on now, picking individual celebrity examples has some serious survivorship bias on its own. We don't hear from the ones who did experience early mortality. Cannabis is a hard topic for Americans to talk about, because it's been so often unfairly demonized in the past, there's a pro-cannabis camp that sometimes won't admit any downside to it, fearing "Reefer Madness" style FUD which has been very common for deca…

and don't rule out all the people that can't publicly state they use marihuana; because of law, etc etc.

Exactly. As a member of our security apparatus I can never reveal my daily use since age of 14. That was 35 years ago, and I am still the same serious athlete I always was, just a calmer one than when I can't smoke pot. From my anecdotal perspective, its the junk food and sitting around culture making people sick.

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#85
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? I've lived in Oregon and Colorado and work in an industry with the higher amount of cannabis use, and there's no trend of anything like what you're saying in any of the hundreds of people that I know. I know many people who feel like cannabis has benefited their lives a great deal. Saying that cannabis use makes people unable to eat is funny, since one of the uses it's been known for and approved for for a long…

Not trying to invoke confirmation bias or position of authority fallacy, but I am also in the industry. Last year, I spent thousands of dollars on lab tests. We're concerned about the health of our customers. That's why this year we have not used any pesticide at all, and even harvested crops with clear thrichrome to prevent the bad paranoia feeling that happens with THC and GABA inhibitor effect. My observation is n…

I am curious of the socioeconomic status of these users who are spending $60 a day? I thought my $60 a week usage was a heavy expense.

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#86
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a look, I'm not an expert in the area by any means, but at a reasonable glance it looks like a good study to me. Of course, it could be a giant fiddle (almost any experiment can be), but I try hard not to automatically assume studies which say what I like are good, and ones that say what I don't like are bad. I'm sure there will be more research in this area, now that there is not the threat of jail if people r…

Tell ya what. As a homework assignment, can you do enough stats research to do a reasonable critique of the methodology?

I am very interested in the answer key for this homework...

In all seriousness, I'd love a breakdown, and references for further study (on how to read medical papers, or scientific papers in general)

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#87

>> "If marijuana use is implicated in cardiovascular diseases and deaths, then it rests on the health community and policy makers to protect the public." Like how the policy makers protect the public from Alcohol, tobacco, and over-the-counter meds? Also a 1200 person study isn't really enough to draw any major conclusions from. Of course ingesting anything substance of any kind frequently over a period of time is bo…

Policy makers do put quite a lot of work into protecting us from alcohol, tobacco and over the counter meds. Also, 1200 people is a fairly huge study, plenty to get some quality statistics from. I'm not sure why you have been so offended by this research. It looks quite convincing to me, and fairly worrying.

Not quite. I'm a lobbyist in the health care industry, and policy related to alcohol and tobacco are designed to meet a very different policy goal from over the counter medications. The latter is a can of worms beyond the scope of this but let's narrow to alcohol and tobacco.

First, alcohol is not as highly regulated as you might think. The contents of the bottle are not strongly regulated, and producers are actually forbidden under the law from listing the ingredients on the bottle.[3] How do you know you're drinking true vodka, and not a mixture of grain alcohol or something worse? Without testing there is no way to find out, and the government doesn't do that unless there is a strong reason to do so. The Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau regulates the label, they regulate those labels a LOT, but along with advertising that's about it.[4] The rest of alcohol regulation is devoted to keeping it away from those under 21, with some PSA's on pregnancy, alcoholism, etc.

Tobacco is almost as highly regulated. Science has proven, more than we can count, and completely indisputable, that tobacco use leads to serious, life threatening health concerns.[5] The best policy position to take on tobacco is to ban it, but they don't.[6] The next best thing would be to set standards that limit the chemicals in tobacco.[0][8] They don't. (Incidentally tobacco products weren’t even regulated by the FDA until 2009)[8] This leaves regulation on packaging, advertising [7], where you can smoke, but has become largely focused on keeping it away from children, and reducing smoking. So in a way the government might seem to be protecting us from tobacco, but in reality, they don't.

Marijuana on the other hand is so highly regulated[1] that it's been extremely difficult to even study it[2] to determine what health affects it might have. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but morality has driven policy on marijuana for so long that the policy research on marijuana legalization, is only now beginning to gain substance. Until marijuana is studied as much as tobacco and alcohol, all policy decisions will be unfairly biased by morality and personal opinion.

[0]. http://www.lung.org/stop-smoking/smoking-facts/whats-in-a-ci... [1]. https://www.fda.gov/downloads/aboutfda/centersoffices/office... [2]. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/us/politics/medical-marij... [3]. http://www.foodpolitics.com/2010/11/nutrition-labeling-of-wi... [4]. https://www.ttb.gov/consumer/labeling_advertising.shtml [5]. https://betobaccofree.hhs.gov/health-effects/smoking-health/... [6]. http://www.denverpost.com/2008/08/13/why-congress-wont-ban-t... [7]. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/fdas-graphic-cigarette-labels-ru... [8]. http://gizmodo.com/the-fda-is-cracking-down-on-american-spir...

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#88

>> "If marijuana use is implicated in cardiovascular diseases and deaths, then it rests on the health community and policy makers to protect the public." Like how the policy makers protect the public from Alcohol, tobacco, and over-the-counter meds? Also a 1200 person study isn't really enough to draw any major conclusions from. Of course ingesting anything substance of any kind frequently over a period of time is bo…

> Like how the policy makers protect the public from Alcohol, tobacco, and over-the-counter meds?

Well... yeah. Exactly like that. State and local laws cover when and where you can drink and smoke. The federal FDA extensively regulates OTC medications. HHS and ATF have extensive jurisdiction here too. And of course there is a very large private sector component made up of groups like AA, AlAnon and MADD that seek to address some of the social problems substance abuse causes.

I mean, you seem to be invoking sarcasm here, but in fact these substances are very heavily regulated right now. You need to expect weed to fall into the same category as it becomes legal and better-studied.

Re: Marijuana use holds three-fold blood pressure death risk: study

#90
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell ya what. As a homework assignment, can you do enough stats research to do a reasonable critique of the methodology?

I am very interested in the answer key for this homework... In all seriousness, I'd love a breakdown, and references for further study (on how to read medical papers, or scientific papers in general)

I suggest starting with "Primer on Biostatistics" by Glantz https://www.amazon.com/Primer-Biostatistics-Seventh-Glantz-P... which contains the basics you need to know to do analysis of stats analysis.

I haven't read it, but you'll probably want a book like https://www.amazon.com/Design-Studies-Medical-Research/dp/04... or https://www.amazon.com/Study-Design-Statistical-Analysis-Cli...

realistically you need at least a master's degree in a quantitative field to get the time and knowledge required to evaluate studies like this. I see a lot of armchair "scientists" trying to evaluate studies, it's very common to see basic mistakes in evaluating papers.

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