If anyone is curious about Beethoven's life, I can recommend and excellent and relatively recently published biography: 'Beethoven: Anguish and Triumph', by Jan Swafford. We see figures like Beethoven and Goethe as geniuses themselves, but the 18th century conception of 'genius' was not of a person, but of a sort of holy spirit that blessed an individual with great abilities, while remaining separate from that person…
When Beethoven Met Goethe
21–30 of 50 posts
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#22The population then was about 1 billion. With 7.6 billion people, greater access to education, and more travel, how many meetings of comparable people happen today?
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#23The population then was about 1 billion. With 7.6 billion people, greater access to education, and more travel, how many meetings of comparable people happen today?
Maybe the amount of geniuses grew proportionately, maybe there are more geniuses per billion capita today. My guess is that there are vastly more geniuses today but that they are spread out more geographically and to many more types of art. Today, maybe Beethoven would be making techno in Rotterdam. Goethe might be making movies in Hollywood or computer games in Copenhagen. Who knows.
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#24If anyone is curious about Beethoven's life, I can recommend and excellent and relatively recently published biography: 'Beethoven: Anguish and Triumph', by Jan Swafford. We see figures like Beethoven and Goethe as geniuses themselves, but the 18th century conception of 'genius' was not of a person, but of a sort of holy spirit that blessed an individual with great abilities, while remaining separate from that person…
http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/the-endoge...
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aphex Twin.
I wish you had elaborated this comment into something substantial that readers could learn from. Here is an interesting comment that a classical composer -- possibly the most influential one in the 20th century through his students -- on Aphex Twin and similar artists: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/10/15/karlheinz-stock...
> I think it would be very helpful if he listens to my work Song Of The Youth, which is electronic music, and a young boy’s voice singing with himself. Because he would then immediately stop with all these post-African repetitions, and he would look for changing tempi and changing rhythms, and he would not allow to repeat any rhythm if it were varied to some extent and if it did not have a direction in its sequence of variations.
Reich, Glass et al. might disagree.
And course the reply:
> "I thought he should listen to a couple of tracks of mine: 'Didgeridoo,' then he'd stop making abstract, random patterns you can't dance to".
For what it's worth, any student of "classical" (highbrow, not limited to Classical period) music will have concepts such as ostinato, fugue, motif, theme/variation, Don't Rush, etc. drilled into them. Periodicity is what differentiates music from noise and a tension between periodicity and aperiodicity is one criterion that separates good music from bad.
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is a controversial point and depends on your concept of art. There are conceptions of art where novelty is an integral part of the very definition of artwork. I agree that pop-music is precisely about creating "feeling and atmosphere", but I would extend it by saying: "easily, quicly and widely accessible shared feeling and atmosphere". And it is precisely this requirement of easy/quick access to the shared feel…
Easy and instant recognition is often a sign of triviality, accepted. But, like in written poetry, a command of the pop idiom is not enough to create a hit: there's got to be something convincing (and generally hard-to-pin-down) about the music or lyrics. There's an art to that which survives in any genre. Even your demanding "genius" criterion can arguably be met by techno work like Autechre, in the same way that an…
I agree, "there's got to be something convincing", but it's unlikely to be musical. Most musicians who have a hit at all have but one hit, and then fade away. Most of the few musicians who persist (eg Rolling Stones) have a massive and well-capitalised marketing department behind them. To a pretty good approximation no musician without major backing (which is expensive) has ever been widely and/or long-term successful. To understand the nature of hits, you need to understand the music industry.
Coincidentally, the music industry follows the SV VC model: fund 100, expect 99 to fail and the one unicorn who makes it big recoups (more than) the cost of the 99 failures.
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish you had elaborated this comment into something substantial that readers could learn from. Here is an interesting comment that a classical composer -- possibly the most influential one in the 20th century through his students -- on Aphex Twin and similar artists: http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2010/10/15/karlheinz-stock...
Influential though he may be, Stockhausen still comes across as a self-aggrandizing asshole: > I think it would be very helpful if he listens to my work Song Of The Youth, which is electronic music, and a young boy’s voice singing with himself. Because he would then immediately stop with all these post-African repetitions, and he would look for changing tempi and changing rhythms, and he would not allow to repeat any…
And course the reply:
I found Aphex Twin's reply disappointing.Like a petulant child he essentially negated Stockhausen's points, without engaging with them. It seems to me that Stockhausen was trying to be helpful -- after all he had been a music teacher for nearly 1/2 century with academic offspring like Kraftwerk and Can. Aphex Twin seemingly was unable/unwilling to see that there are other approaches to music than the orthodoxy of 1990s dance music. Aphex Twin's main musical criterion seems to be dancablility:
you can't dance to. Do you
reckon he can dance? You could
dance to Song of the Youth, but
it hasn't got a groove in it,
there's no bassline."
I would argue to the contrary: dance music -- whatever its merits for
dancing -- cannot be interesting as art music. Why? Because dancing,
specially dancing well, is itself demanding: most brain capacity is
used for moving the body along to the music in the right way, and that
capacity is missing for listening to and analysind the fine points of
the music. Reich, Glass et al. might disagree.
Of course the
art music tradition of American mimimalism that you refer to, does change tempi and changing rhythms quite a great deal. It does so in novel ways that had not been explored in previous classical traditions. That's the main novelty that American mimimalism gave to the world. Periodicity is what ...
I agree with that, and add that modern pop-music errs on the side of too much periodicity, which renders it uninteresting as art-music, but useful as aural background and for dancing.Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#28Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
Influential though he may be, Stockhausen still comes across as a self-aggrandizing asshole: > I think it would be very helpful if he listens to my work Song Of The Youth, which is electronic music, and a young boy’s voice singing with himself. Because he would then immediately stop with all these post-African repetitions, and he would look for changing tempi and changing rhythms, and he would not allow to repeat any…
And course the reply: I found Aphex Twin's reply disappointing. Like a petulant child he essentially negated Stockhausen's points, without engaging with them. It seems to me that Stockhausen was trying to be helpful -- after all he had been a music teacher for nearly 1/2 century with academic offspring like Kraftwerk and Can. Aphex Twin seemingly was unable/unwilling to see that there are other approaches to music th…
IMHO:
Dance(able) music, like all music/noise, is about altered states of awareness.
There's sometimes something wonderful about reggae, house music, chanting, work songs that can change your frame of mind.
But then again all music (genres) do that for me.
Re: When Beethoven Met Goethe
#30This was arguably the golden age of German culture. Even if Kant just passed away, you had philosophers such as Hegel in Berlin, Fichte, Schelling living at the same time and the younger Schopenhauer actually meeting with Goethe, although that did not turn out well. At that time, Romanticism was taking off in Germany, after the Weimarer Klassik around Goethe, Schiller and people such as Herder and Wieland was coming…
German culture was going strong until the purges under Fascism began - in philosophy, art, mathematics, physics & other sciences. One of the shocking aspects of the rising of Fascism was that it happened in an intellectually fertile environment with many reasonable people. It is tempting to try to spot a gradual decline in German culture, but that was not the case. It was on the rise until Hitler physically liquidate…
That's not true. Hitler didn't liquidate the intelligentsia. The first programmable computer ( by konrad zuse ) was created during that time. The first rockets were developed during that time. Hitler didn't wipe out all the nobel prize winners in germany.
Germany was still a major intellectual center before, during and AFTER ww2.
Germany is still the 3rd largest producer of nobel prize winners with 106.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_lau...
Germany didn't go anywhere. Hitler isn't germany. Hitler is just a blip in german history.