First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography • Hacker News Board

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#41

Post by junkbit » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 2:57 PM UTC

man1sh wrote: post #26

windsurfer wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The padding is there to make the interface cleaner. It forces developers to be more concise with their components as well as making navigation easier for users. Keep in mind Gnome is meant to be easy to use, not easy on the screen real-estate. If you want a minimalist UI, there are a million alternatives in linux land

No, seriously. The padding is just too much, to the level that it wastes space.I know too much clutter is bad, but that doesn't mean GNOME people have to increase the padding to this extent. Can we have a middle ground for padding? Nor too less, nor too much.

If you install Gnome Color Chooser you can select 'compact profile' which is a global setting for padding. It shrinks all of your buttons and other white space without you having to edit the theme by hand:

sudo apt-get install gnome-color-chooser

Find it in System→Prefs menu after install

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#42

Post by wolverian » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 3:57 PM UTC

megaman821 wrote: post #38

It is such a small thing, but the font rendering quality has always prevented me from enjoying Linux. I read so much while on the computer the horrible rendering and kerning just nag at me until I don't feel like reading anything else until I switch OS's.

Note that font rendering differs massively between distributions. I prefer Ubuntu's softer (OS X -style) look best. Others might prefer Fedora's crisp (Windows-style) rendering.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#43

Post by wolverian » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 3:59 PM UTC

jdub wrote: post #15

noahlt wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux.

... plus, the incredibly good Android "Droid" typeface is available under an open license and looks fantastic on mobile and desktop screens. So the new Ubuntu font certainly gives them/us something unique, but I'm not yet convinced that it gives them/us greater quality (I'm an Ubuntu member, and have tried this early release). Plus, you can install Droid on Ubuntu today: ttf-droid.

I dislike the look of Droid Serif. I use Droid Sans as my UI font on my netbook (running Ubuntu), though. I'll certainly compare them when the Ubuntu font is released.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#44

Post by vrode » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 4:03 PM UTC

It's beautiful. Despite the flaws, it warms my heart to see that someone is actually taking interface fonts seriously on Linux. I share the controversial belief that games and software are far too obvious to be the reason why Windows got ahead. I think it is the attention to everyday details like fonts, that made Windows more popular.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#45

Post by djacobs » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 4:27 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #39

The kerning on the 'i' is off (look at the 'B' 'i' pair), the upper 'I' is indistinct, the ascender on the lower 'l' is grotesquely higher than the cap height (look at 'P' 'l'), and the lower 't' and 's' look like the bastard children of Eurostile. I think it's a mess. There's a reason everyone tweaks Bitstream Vera; it works. Novelty sans fonts aren't the reason Linux typography sucks.

I'm okay with the high lowercase L, but I am with ya re: the lowercase T and S, they ain't so great.

Is it just me, or did the lowercase T come straight from the Twitter logo?

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#46

Post by djacobs » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 4:29 PM UTC

megaman821 wrote: post #38

It is such a small thing, but the font rendering quality has always prevented me from enjoying Linux. I read so much while on the computer the horrible rendering and kerning just nag at me until I don't feel like reading anything else until I switch OS's.

Is it the rendering or the font choice that you don't like? I, for one, install Lucida Grande as my system font and Monaco or Menlo as my monotype font and think the design looks much fresher.

Sure, the rendering isn't 100% perfect, but with sub-pixel smoothing, I really don't mind it.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#47

Post by noste » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 4:55 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #35

neves wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do I configure it myself? Do you have a reference?

Modify the Debian packaging files to provide the correct compilation options - sorry I'm not experienced with this as I've only made RPMs before =- but it should be pretty easy to figure out.

I think that Ubuntu enables hinting on default. According to FreeType's docs/TRUETYPE the TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER macro should be defined, should you want to enable patent encumbered parts.

On a karmic box:

  $ apt-get source libfreetype6
  $ grep -h TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE freetype-2.3.9/debian/patches-freetype/*
  -/* #define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER */
  +#define TT_CONFIG_OPTION_BYTECODE_INTERPRETER

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#48

Post by man1sh » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 5:27 PM UTC

junkbit wrote: post #41

man1sh wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, seriously. The padding is just too much, to the level that it wastes space.I know too much clutter is bad, but that doesn't mean GNOME people have to increase the padding to this extent. Can we have a middle ground for padding? Nor too less, nor too much.

If you install Gnome Color Chooser you can select 'compact profile' which is a global setting for padding. It shrinks all of your buttons and other white space without you having to edit the theme by hand: sudo apt-get install gnome-color-chooser Find it in System→Prefs menu after install

Thanks for the information.

BTW I have always hand tweaked the font, DPI, and all appearance based settings on a fresh install of any GNOME based distro. I am not enraged on the padding issue, but it would be still nice to see optimal configuration out of box.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#49

Post by naner » Thu, Jul 08, 2010, 9:59 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #40

naner wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like he is talking about rasterization which is handled by FreeType.

Kerning is a property of the font, not of the renderer.

I replied to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177

The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux.

He couldn't have been talking about individual font properties since he said high quality fonts don't make any difference.

Re: First look: new Ubuntu font boosts Linux typography

#50

Post by tptacek » Fri, Jul 09, 2010, 12:18 AM UTC

naner wrote: post #49

tptacek wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kerning is a property of the font, not of the renderer.

I replied to this: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1496177 The problem with Linux typography isn't a lack of fonts, it's bad rendering. I can buy a font from Adobe. I can't buy a better font renderer for Linux. He couldn't have been talking about individual font properties since he said high quality fonts don't make any difference.

I agree. I think it's remarkable that in taking an overt step to improve Linux typography, they managed to compound their problems by introducing a weak, quirky new default font.