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Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

lazarus-ide.org

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Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#71

Post by krylon »

brass9 wrote: post #50
samuell wrote: post #4

Lazarus/FPC checks so many nice boxes: [x] Statically compiled [x] Native UI on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Typically compiled without code changes on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Small binaries [x] No GC [x] Readable, somewhat python-like syntax [x] Still, doesn't rely on indentation for nested blocks [ ] (Fill in)

> [x] Readable, somewhat python-like syntax I have a rather different opinion on OP that it has a needlessly verbose syntax. Pythonic it is definitely not. Even C# (which is another creation of Anders Hejlsberg, after MS poached him from Borland) has a better, readable and concise syntax. I used to be a Delphi evangelist in it's glory days. Now I bristle when I read Pascal source code, there's so much unnecessary vis…

> there's so much unnecessary visual noise

FWIW, I took over maintenance of an in-house application written in Delpi/ObjectPascal, with practically no prior experience with Pascal (but one fun weekend looking at Ada), and I had almost no problems reading the code that were caused by Pascal's syntax. It might be because the guy initially wrote the application did a good job, but I found the code very easy to read.

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#72

Post by pcblues »

brass9 wrote: post #50
samuell wrote: post #4

Lazarus/FPC checks so many nice boxes: [x] Statically compiled [x] Native UI on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Typically compiled without code changes on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Small binaries [x] No GC [x] Readable, somewhat python-like syntax [x] Still, doesn't rely on indentation for nested blocks [ ] (Fill in)

> [x] Readable, somewhat python-like syntax I have a rather different opinion on OP that it has a needlessly verbose syntax. Pythonic it is definitely not. Even C# (which is another creation of Anders Hejlsberg, after MS poached him from Borland) has a better, readable and concise syntax. I used to be a Delphi evangelist in it's glory days. Now I bristle when I read Pascal source code, there's so much unnecessary vis…

Ex-Delphi developer (10 years) - still do some maintenance...

The verbosity is an indicator that it does not require a huge cliff of learning to understand the syntax. (It also means the compiler can absolutely fly, which Delphi did.)

I like the conciseness of later language structures, but they all need to be learnt in order to read or write in them.

The only solution to the verbosity of Delphi was to increase your typing speed or use an IDE add-in that provided shortcuts :)

So I suppose my argument is that the syntax is not needlessly verbose. The verbosity helped the speed of compilation by the simplicity of its grammar, and the learnability of the language is quite speedy as a result of fewer grammatical options.

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#73

Post by rcarmo »

I mentioned Lazarus in other threads a few days ago (since my kids are playing around with it) and it's great to see it as a top-level post. Some random thoughts:

- It's somewhat amusing to realize that in 2017 this is pretty much the easiest way to do a desktop app (besides RealBasic/Xojo which I've yet to try - was put off by their mandatory registration)

- I wish we had RAD environments like this for more languages (Racket, Python, etc. - even JS).

- On the Mac, installation is a bit fiddly. It needs a little polish and support (a standalone, integrated bundle would be better, or at the very least a unified installer).

- We've been retrofitting web UIs to desktops to such an extent (I'm looking at you, Electron) that the tiny, supremely efficient apps Lazarus spits out put the last couple of years into stark perspective (2GB RAM used by Slack, etc.)

I love Lazarus, and hope it helps resurrect the RAD approach for other languages - if anyone knows of any similar environments (besides QtCreator, etc.), could you share the links?

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#74

Post by geff82 »

samuell wrote: post #4

Lazarus/FPC checks so many nice boxes: [x] Statically compiled [x] Native UI on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Typically compiled without code changes on Linux/Mac/Win [x] Small binaries [x] No GC [x] Readable, somewhat python-like syntax [x] Still, doesn't rely on indentation for nested blocks [ ] (Fill in)

[x] Easy string handling (compared to C)

I like how you say python-like syntax... as so many borrow from Pascal

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#76

Post by dkersten »

rcarmo wrote: post #73

I mentioned Lazarus in other threads a few days ago (since my kids are playing around with it) and it's great to see it as a top-level post. Some random thoughts: - It's somewhat amusing to realize that in 2017 this is pretty much the easiest way to do a desktop app (besides RealBasic/Xojo which I've yet to try - was put off by their mandatory registration) - I wish we had RAD environments like this for more language…

I've not used Lazarus or Delphi, so I can't really compare properly. Perhaps I'm missing something. But:

> if anyone knows of any similar environments (besides QtCreator, etc.)

Why "besides QtCreator, etc"? It sounds to me almost like "do you know any X besides all of the popular X". Is there any particular reason you discount QtCreator? Does it not work for your purposes? Or is it just a case of you already know about it and want to hear about more obscure tools?

> It's somewhat amusing to realize that in 2017 this is pretty much the easiest way to do a desktop app

I've found Qt with QtCreator to be an incredibly productive way to develop desktop applications. Both old-school QWidgets-based Qt with QtDesigner (the RAD portion of QtCreator for pre-QtQuick) and QtQuick/QML with and without its RAD interface.

> I wish we had RAD environments like this for more languages (Racket, Python, etc. - even JS).

I've used the Python version of Qt with QWidgets in the past and it was a pretty nice workflow. I've never done it personally, but I know of people who use Python + QtQuick/QML and seem pretty happy with it. There's also various "app builder" tools for JS, but I don't know how good they are.

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#77

Post by boznz »

DisownedWheat wrote: post #16
throwaway7645 wrote: post #8

I see Lazarus pop up on HN occasionally. It's an IDE for FreePascal right? I guess I'll have to open the article again. How are the database drivers? I've been told they're ageing. Is there 64 bit support for Windows or only 32?

I'm no expert by any means, but I just opened Lazarus to look at the DB drivers and they seem pretty respectable. The MySQL driver only goes up to 5.6 but works well in my experience. I haven't tried the SQLite, Postgres, ODB or MSSQL drivers though. Also it does support 64 bit, I have a 64 bit Lazarus installed on my Windows VPS.

FYI 5.6 drivers work on 5.7. not extensively checked but my database application worked fine after mysql was updated..

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#78

Post by MageSlayer »

cturner wrote: post #65

I use Free Pascal at times. In case there are any FP developers here: your build arrangements hamper my use. I tried installing earlier this week from source and could not get it going. My ideal would be a single configure/Makefile combination in the root directory. Consider if the user does not have root, how are they to set a prefix? The idea of the 'build' download is good, but not if it needs to link to recent sh…

I guess you need to contact devs to clarify. I regularly build from sources for Linux and cross-compile for Windows both x32 and x64 using just single "make ..." command.

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#79

Post by chx »

dkersten wrote: post #76
rcarmo wrote: post #73

I mentioned Lazarus in other threads a few days ago (since my kids are playing around with it) and it's great to see it as a top-level post. Some random thoughts: - It's somewhat amusing to realize that in 2017 this is pretty much the easiest way to do a desktop app (besides RealBasic/Xojo which I've yet to try - was put off by their mandatory registration) - I wish we had RAD environments like this for more language…

I've not used Lazarus or Delphi, so I can't really compare properly. Perhaps I'm missing something. But: > if anyone knows of any similar environments (besides QtCreator, etc.) Why "besides QtCreator, etc"? It sounds to me almost like "do you know any X besides all of the popular X". Is there any particular reason you discount QtCreator? Does it not work for your purposes? Or is it just a case of you already know abo…

There is https://blind.guru/qta11y.html as a problem with QT, I think it made to HN like three days ago.

Re: Lazarus – A Delphi-compatible cross-platform IDE

#80

Post by MageSlayer »

dkersten wrote: post #76
rcarmo wrote: post #73

I mentioned Lazarus in other threads a few days ago (since my kids are playing around with it) and it's great to see it as a top-level post. Some random thoughts: - It's somewhat amusing to realize that in 2017 this is pretty much the easiest way to do a desktop app (besides RealBasic/Xojo which I've yet to try - was put off by their mandatory registration) - I wish we had RAD environments like this for more language…

I've not used Lazarus or Delphi, so I can't really compare properly. Perhaps I'm missing something. But: > if anyone knows of any similar environments (besides QtCreator, etc.) Why "besides QtCreator, etc"? It sounds to me almost like "do you know any X besides all of the popular X". Is there any particular reason you discount QtCreator? Does it not work for your purposes? Or is it just a case of you already know abo…

As a Delphi/FPC/Lazarus veteran (10+ years), comparing one of the quickest compilers with Qt/Boost C++ development cycle looks like a joke. Much faster edit-compile cycle which scales without issues up 1e6+ LOC (yes, modules/incremental compilation done right right from the start)
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