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Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

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Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could have put that gem out front instead of pulling a rabbit out of your hat. Otherwise to me you're just another anonymous person arguing on a forum rather than someone with a specific and relevant gripe. If there is a specific case where you disagreed with Linus and he insulted you then I understand why you want to take this up in this way but I notice that Linus is not a participant in the discussion he…

Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about and you're wildly speculating. And it's pretty offensive, to be honest. I'm not "seething", this isn't even close to the defining moment of my career, and I'm not on a crusade. You're trying to portray me as some crazy caricature because it allows you to ignore my argument. That's not even remotely okay. My argument has nothing at all to do with that one interaction, a…

> Dude, you have no idea what you're talking about and you're wildly speculating.

That's because you're playing silly games where you know more than I do and you're positioning yourself as superior by holding back information.

> And it's pretty offensive, to be honest.

Yes, you offend easily, that much is clear. See, I haven't used a bad word and yet, you are offended.

> I'm not "seething", this isn't even close to the defining moment of my career, and I'm not on a crusade.

Well, you seem to feel pretty strongly about it, strong enough to continue an argument that you said you bowed out of.

> You're trying to portray me as some crazy caricature because it allows you to ignore my argument.

Your words, not mine, and I have yet to see an argument, all I see is attitude. And your attitude does not trump Linus', neither does his trump yours. If you weren't upset about it this whole thread would have never happened.

> That's not even remotely okay.

No, I agree, it's not ok to sideswipe an argument by holding back key information. It makes it look like you are arguing for the general case when actually you are holding a specific grudge.

> My argument has nothing at all to do with that one interaction, and I only brought it up because you were trying to argue that Linus's asshole nature was just him being correct.

I did not say that he was correct, I said he might be correct and be an asshole at the same time. The one does not preclude the other.

> Please don't reply to me again.

Well, you weren't going to reply in the first place so if you don't want me to reply then just let it go. Otherwise, consider your options: you can reply, I may or may not reply to that if you want to control my response the best way is not to reply.

> I have no wish to have to defend myself against your offensive and wildly incorrect accusations any further.

Then don't.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#172

Someone desperately needs to come up with an open source replacement for GitHub that is completely decentralized. Sure GitLab exists and the repo is decentralized since it's Git, but issues, merge requests, comments, etc aren't Git based (though they could be)

Check out Phabricator - https://phacility.com/phabricator/

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#174
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I'm a fan (and user) of gitlab since GitHub's recent policies and that GitHub takes forever to implement simple things that all users would love (like free private repos)

So that's why it's a good idea to use bitbucket as well. Then you get the free private repos there.

Fuck yeah Bitbucket.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#175
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is one of the few open source projects to with plenty of developers. They don't need or even want your help, especially if your attitude toward tools is rigid, and if you have nothing concrete to contribute. Linus has said this a few times -- in general they don't actively try to onboard new contributors.

"They don't need or even want your help" There was in fact a talk given by Greg Kroah-Hartman, one Linux's lead maintainers, about development for the Linux kernel which he titled "I Don't Want Your Code" . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMeH7wqOwXA

Haha, thanks for the video. I watched it, and I was surprised to see that it's about a specific company.

He's at Linaro, specfically taking their developers to task for sending bad patches. And they indeed sound horrible, but he's good natured about it.

I'm just starting to accept patches for my project, and honestly I'm flabberghasted that people will send patches that not only don't run, but don't build. And Greg was saying the same thing.

I guess I got spoiled at my last job, where people generally sent high quality patches / code reviews. Although toward the end, I noticed some sloppiness. It wasn't the main reason I left the company, but it started to feel like the downfall... I don't want to work with people who don't know how to submit code reviews / patches.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#176

I can't really see the obsession that everyone has with centralised and closed services like github. We need to start moving away from them, not move more projects to them. Mailing lists and NNTP make decentralisation quite easy while being open standards and without having the need to have any account in any centralised service, why drop all these features away?

> Mailing lists and NNTP make decentralisation quite easy

For mailing lists, most people use one of the big email providers (like gmail), their ISP's email service, or they set up their own mail server. The last option is what would make email truly decentralized, but, in order to be able to send messages to others, you would also need to set up SPF and DKIM on your MX to ensure deliverability to other servers.

For NNTP, on the other hand, you would either have to use Google groups, or one of the free Usenet providers. If you set up your own news server (which would make this option truly decentralized), then you would also need to enter into a peer arrangement with several other usenet providers in order to have your articles distributed on usenet.

I don't have first hand experience with either option, so I don't know how much effort is involved for the decentralized options I mentioned above.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#177

There's also Linus's personal aversion to how GitHub implements many opinionated workflows. > I don't do github pull requests. > > github throws away all the relevant information, like having even a > valid email address for the person asking me to pull. The diffstat is > also deficient and useless. > > Git comes with a nice pull-request generation module, but github > instead decided to replace it with their own tot…

Mobile friendly:

> I don't do github pull requests.

> github throws away all the relevant information, like having even a valid email address for the person asking me to pull. The diffstat is also deficient and useless.

> Git comes with a nice pull-request generation module, but github instead decided to replace it with their own totally inferior version. As a result, I consider github useless for these kinds of things. It's fine for hosting, but the pull requests and the online commit editing, are just pure garbage.

> I've told github people about my concerns, they didn't think they mattered, so I gave up. Feel free to make a bugreport to github.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#178
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is gate keeping at its finest. Email is a clunky tool to do development with compared with what is available. A persons willingness to use email (and all the quirks for submitting a patch) for patching the kernel has nothing to do with the quality of code that they write.

So clunky! :D — With 2000 commits per day, I don't think they need more people. I can't even imagine trying to fit that amount of source code change into any management style, let alone one that has little or no gatekeeping. Making the barrier to entry higher is probably only one step to prevent the project from self-immolation.

So they're gating developers by their appreciation of the chosen toolset? Wouldn't you rather see them challenged on their programming abilities? Do you suggest a correlation, I find it hard to believe there is one?

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people really don't seem to get is that Linus' cultural background is Finnish, and that Finns tend to be extremely outspoken and that they couldn't lie or polish their words if their life depended on it. http://www.karelia.fi/welcomingguide/the-finnish-way-of-life What to American sensibilities are grave insults to Linus is most likely just him speaking his mind without any filter in place, the way he was brough…

Cultural differences aren't enough to explain away his open hostility to so many things and people. To quote from the original comment in this thread: >You're a moron. I don't believe the Finnish mentality justifies being so aggressive - and if it does, I'd better stay a long way away from Finland, which is clearly an awful place to live.

> To quote from the original comment in this thread:

> >You're a moron.

> I don't believe the Finnish mentality justifies being so aggressive

A previous Hackernews thread referred to a reddit thread that found the now deleted comment that Linus responded to [1] [2].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3962978

[2] http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/tionj/linus_tor...

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#180

There's also Linus's personal aversion to how GitHub implements many opinionated workflows. > I don't do github pull requests. > > github throws away all the relevant information, like having even a > valid email address for the person asking me to pull. The diffstat is > also deficient and useless. > > Git comes with a nice pull-request generation module, but github > instead decided to replace it with their own tot…

> Git comes with a nice pull-request generation module, Can anybody explain a little more about this module? I thought 'pull request' is Github only.

It's known as git request-pull [1]. The generated text would have to be sent to the ones you would want to pull from the repository you host.

[1] https://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-request...

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