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Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

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Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#131

Post by mi100hael »

dublinben wrote: post #44
mmagin wrote: post #20

I imagine after the Bitkeeper fiasco, Linus and others are disinclined to become dependent on a proprietary service.

It should be a complete non-starter for one of the largest, and most important free software projects to be hosted on a centralized, proprietary service like Github. I can't even consider it as a serious suggestion.

I always think this sums it up well:

    > Current state makes it very hard to mange/search/fork/open-issues etc
    > especially for newcomers,
    > please move the project to github so we can have nice disussions
    > forks/prs etc goodness.

    No.  Never.  Github is proprietary communications tool which requires
    users to accept a terms of service and login.  That gives power and
    influence to a single entity (and a for-profit organization at that).

    Contributing to unicorn is *socially* as easy as contributing to git or
    the Linux kernel.  There is no need to signup for anything, no need to
    ever touch a bloated web browser.

    The reason I contribute to Free Software is because I am against any
    sort of lock-in or proprietary features.  It absolutely sickens me to
    encounter users who seem to be incapable of using git without a
    proprietary communications tool.
https://bogomips.org/unicorn-public/20140801213202.GA2729@dc...

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#133

Post by mi100hael »

dozzie wrote: post #101
matt4077 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github also created the most productive (set of) open source communities ever around "his" baby. Seriously: Everyone calling Github "garbage" should be forced to use sourceforge until they're willing to reconsider. Or Bugzilla. Or trac. Or whatever it is that ubuntu is using to make it impossible to ever find anything.

I don't see why you deem Trac worse than GitHub for helping a project.

but muh bootstrap

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#134

Post by devrandomguy »

taeric wrote: post #2

I actually really like the MAINTAINERS file. Keeps the metadata literally in the repository and doesn't rely on an external system.

Yes, this is similar to how I would like to handle issues: just an issues directory full of yaml-markdown files. That way, issues are a part of the same history as the code. They can be specific to a branch, they can diverge as different solutions are attempted in parallel, and they can be deleted and retrieved after resolution.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#135

Post by [deleted] »

jwilk wrote: post #118
feelin_googley wrote: post #81

Off-topic: Why does this blog need to be whitelisted with Adblock Plus? See data-adblockkey in HTML source. Are there any ads in this page? (Maybe owner wants revenue from domain parking?) Why is this blog not working with simple user agents that do not process javascript (e.g., curl, etc.)?

curls works for me; so does Firefox+NoScript and elinks.

[deleted]

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#136

Post by [deleted] »

jwilk wrote: post #118
feelin_googley wrote: post #81

Off-topic: Why does this blog need to be whitelisted with Adblock Plus? See data-adblockkey in HTML source. Are there any ads in this page? (Maybe owner wants revenue from domain parking?) Why is this blog not working with simple user agents that do not process javascript (e.g., curl, etc.)?

curls works for me; so does Firefox+NoScript and elinks.

[deleted]

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#137

Post by kibwen »

lomnakkus wrote: post #72
kibwen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nobody cares how much you produce if you're too unreasonable to sell them on your creation. Creating strawmen out of maximally-extreme arguments is silly. Unless you think that being reasonable is mutually exclusive with being productive?

True, but irrelevant for Linus. It's not a good way to get ahead[1], but if you're already far enough ahead... Personally, I think I'm on "your" side -- as it were -- on the side of civility, but sometimes you've just got to get shit done. Properly, which sometimes means shouting the right things at the right people[2]. I do think it's unreasonable of you to say that Linus is not "being reasonable", as you've clearly…

> I do think it's unreasonable of you to say that Linus is not "being reasonable", as you've clearly implied in your comment.

I'm literally using the terminology of the person that I'm trying to refute! :P If you want to argue phrasing, take that to jacquesm.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#138

Post by feelin_googley »

jwilk wrote: post #118
feelin_googley wrote: post #81

Off-topic: Why does this blog need to be whitelisted with Adblock Plus? See data-adblockkey in HTML source. Are there any ads in this page? (Maybe owner wants revenue from domain parking?) Why is this blog not working with simple user agents that do not process javascript (e.g., curl, etc.)?

curls works for me; so does Firefox+NoScript and elinks.

Thank you for checking.

Problem is misconfigured DNS:

   1 blog.ffwll.ch:
   77 bytes, 1+2+0+0 records, response, authoritative, noerror
   query: 1 blog.ffwll.ch
   answer: blog.ffwll.ch 3600 CNAME danvet.github.io
   answer: danvet.github.io 3600 A 192.64.147.142
I mistook 192.64.147.142 as the correct IP address.

Try that one with curl, firefox or elinks.

Correct address is 151.101.53.147.

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#139

Post by kibwen »

laumars wrote: post #50
kibwen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And nobody cares how much you produce if you're too unreasonable to sell them on your creation. Creating strawmen out of maximally-extreme arguments is silly. Unless you think that being reasonable is mutually exclusive with being productive?

I think it's fair to say Linus has already proven his worth. But even the Linux kernel and git aside, the fact that people listen to him despite his frankness speaks volumes for how respected he is.

Agreed, just as it would be a fallacy to presume that one can't be both productive and polite, it would also be a fallacy to believe that being impolite immediately invalidates all productive endeavors. I'm not using this thread to try to tear Linus down, just trying to keep people from promulgating the myth that Linus' governance style is the only effective one. :P

Re: Why GitHub Can't Host the Linux Kernel Community

#140

Post by DSMan195276 »

jacquesm wrote: post #71
icebraining wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "Linus is an asshole" is well overplayed, though. The guy's been developing Linux for 25 years, with most of his communications in the open. The kind of outburst he has once every few years, and which gets extensive coverage and discussion, is a weekly occurrence in many offices. It's just that we'll never hear of those.

And I've yet to see someone single out a particularly nice and constructive comment and use that for a counterpoint.

I suppose I'll bite:

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/9/924

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/8/873

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/8/855

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/8/760

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/6/209

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/6/219

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/6/322

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/4/634

https://lkml.org/lkml/2017/8/3/919

If you didn't notice from the dates, those are all (Literally all, I didn't leave any out) of Linus's emails from the past week or so. The only one that even really has a complaint in it is the ext4 one that you've likely already seen, and the rest are extremely helpful and include detailed descriptions of what he was thinking or what he'd like to see.

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