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Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

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Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#51

Post by fellellor »

tuddman wrote: post #18

Author is projecting. Replaced "me" with "people" in writing this. Considered himself smart; tried to wrap head around Bitcoin, but lacks math/cs/finance background, and or curiosity to dig below surface level hype or read blockchain-y things beyond what's written by other lazy journalists ...? (now I'm projecting). Doesn't 'get it'. Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper.

I think the point being conveyed is that, the internet or www was easily accessible to people who could go on to modify things to suit their own end. Yes, you can use bitcoin as is, thanks to a number of available software choices. But it is difficult to do anything else with it.

However, at this point I can only see it as a currency. So I can't say if the second point is even applicable here.

Maybe the reference is to the underlying blockchain, the effort required to understand it, and consequently customize it like people did with the older web technologies.

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#52

Post by thephyber »

puranjay wrote: post #30
tuddman wrote: post #18

Author is projecting. Replaced "me" with "people" in writing this. Considered himself smart; tried to wrap head around Bitcoin, but lacks math/cs/finance background, and or curiosity to dig below surface level hype or read blockchain-y things beyond what's written by other lazy journalists ...? (now I'm projecting). Doesn't 'get it'. Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper.

Which is what makes Bitcoin's democratic credentials so ridiculous. "It will free us from fiat money!" No it won't. It's just a transfer of wealth from educated elite to other educated elite. 99% of the world's population can't understand it. 99.5% can't mine it. It's so damn elitist that it's not even funny.

> 99.5% can't mine it.

Not relevant. Mining is no longer profitable for any new entrants without some incredible innovation in computing power or electricity costs. Even the miners are unlikely to make money from mining only from holding their mining gains as investments.

> 99% of the world's population can't understand it.

That's underselling the human population. I would posit 10-20% are probably mentally incapable of understanding the basics of modern finance, therefore have no chance at a new form of currency. For all of the rest, they can understand what they need to know to use it.

BitCoin's entire proposal, including the original paper, the source code, millions of different explanations, and millions of different opinions about it are available for free. It's the most anti-elitist form of currency we have come up with. The costs of fiat currencies are hidden: central banks adjusting the money supply in real time at will, transactions aren't all visible to the globe on a single ledger, etc.

I'm not even very bullish on BitCoin. But I don't find it remarkably elitist -- at least no more than previous currencies.

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#53

Post by phailhaus »

I've noticed this about Bitcoin. It's not hard to understand at all, but everyone attempts to dive into the technical details right from the start and this loses most people.

The core conceit that people gloss over is the fact there is no such thing as a "wallet" that "stores" bitcoins. The only thing that exists is a public record of numbers saying they're giving bitcoins to other numbers.

When you create a "wallet", you're choosing a private number that nobody knows and nobody has already picked. You use this private number to create another number, the public number, the "wallet address".

Since this number doesn't exist anywhere in the public record, we say you have "zero bitcoins."

Then, you get someone to claim "I am giving x bitcoins to your number". If you can get this claim (a transaction) into the public record (the blockchain), we all decide to agree "This happened." And now we say you have x bitcoins. Why? Because now you're allowed to make a transaction saying you're giving those bitcoins to another number!

It's all made up. This is what currency is, it only exists because of collective trust.

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#54

Post by [deleted] »

fellellor wrote: post #51
tuddman wrote: post #18

Author is projecting. Replaced "me" with "people" in writing this. Considered himself smart; tried to wrap head around Bitcoin, but lacks math/cs/finance background, and or curiosity to dig below surface level hype or read blockchain-y things beyond what's written by other lazy journalists ...? (now I'm projecting). Doesn't 'get it'. Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper.

I think the point being conveyed is that, the internet or www was easily accessible to people who could go on to modify things to suit their own end. Yes, you can use bitcoin as is, thanks to a number of available software choices. But it is difficult to do anything else with it. However, at this point I can only see it as a currency. So I can't say if the second point is even applicable here. Maybe the reference is…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#57

Post by thephyber »

exogeny wrote: post #43
tuddman wrote: post #18

Author is projecting. Replaced "me" with "people" in writing this. Considered himself smart; tried to wrap head around Bitcoin, but lacks math/cs/finance background, and or curiosity to dig below surface level hype or read blockchain-y things beyond what's written by other lazy journalists ...? (now I'm projecting). Doesn't 'get it'. Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper.

>Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper. Plenty of people on HN. Maybe. And that's about it. Mainstream acceptance is far, far away, and having a condescending attitudes towards those who struggle with the concept is not going to help.

Plenty of people understand the basics of BitCoin, that it is a currency and how to transact with an exchange that supports it.

You don't need to know the knitty-gritty of SHA256, blockchains, or the game theory associated with Proof of Work to "understand" BitCoin.

If you apply the same standards for "knowledge" of the US Dollar, you also have to require that people understand the intricacies of the US Treasury, the Mint, The Federal Reserve (and it's 12 constituent regional Central Banks), concepts of fiat currency, etc.

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#58

Post by shallot_router »

puranjay wrote: post #30
tuddman wrote: post #18

Author is projecting. Replaced "me" with "people" in writing this. Considered himself smart; tried to wrap head around Bitcoin, but lacks math/cs/finance background, and or curiosity to dig below surface level hype or read blockchain-y things beyond what's written by other lazy journalists ...? (now I'm projecting). Doesn't 'get it'. Plenty of people understand Bitcoin. Go read the whitepaper.

Which is what makes Bitcoin's democratic credentials so ridiculous. "It will free us from fiat money!" No it won't. It's just a transfer of wealth from educated elite to other educated elite. 99% of the world's population can't understand it. 99.5% can't mine it. It's so damn elitist that it's not even funny.

Most people can understand it from the perspective of an end user, just as you and I can swipe a credit card without necessarily understanding all the underlying Chip & PIN and anti-fraud and bank processing technologies and processes.

Re: Bitcoin Makes Even Smart People Feel Dumb

#60

Post by PeterisP »

oxide wrote: post #29
SadWebDeveloper wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until transaction fees start to rise due those people pushing their own agenda on the network.

Cost me a couple dollars last night to send 70 dollars in btc to a friend. Last month it was 3 dollars and change. I'm thankful it was slightly more reasonable. I might use an alt coin for awhile to save on fees.

3 dollars per payment seems extremely expensive - that's how much an inefficient international bank wire transfer costs, with the more reasonable bank-to-bank systems (including international e.g. in EU) costing a few cents.
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