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Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

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Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#71
post #30

I think there are a few rare cases where keeping your idea close to the vest makes sense, but overall I think it's delusional to think your ideas are worth protecting. Think of it this way: most, if not all ideas have already been thought of by somebody else. Are you damaged by those people having thought of the idea first, or are you damaged by them having executed it first? If they don't execute, then it's just an…

Of course, once you've answered all those questions you now have more than just an "idea." You have a plan of attack, a strategy, market research, design concepts, historical data, etc. In other words, you actually have something worth protecting. So, are you effectively saying that the answer to the opening question is that startups in stealth mode aren't really protecting ideas, but are protecting the plan of attac…

"It seems that the difference between stealth mode and non-stealth mode is simply in telling the public what you are working on."

Where "what you are working on" is presented in broad, nebulous terms ("ebay for dogs", or "online video editing").

The previous post mentions Google as an example of execution over ideas, but the idea for Google was not "search engine", but "search engine that uses the following algorithm ..." And there was good reason to keep details secret.

Design concepts are ideas. Plans of attack are ideas. There are lots of ideas based on specific data and current opportunities, and these are the ones people keep quiet about.

When people say ideas are worthless, they mostly seem to be referring to worthless ideas (e.g. "ebay for dogs", which is more of an idea for an idea ), not the ideas behind a tangible implementation or the ideas for successful marketing.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it think it depends a lot on who's working in the startup. If it's got several founders of other wildly successful companies attached to it, both in terms of board members and actual employees, then the idea by itself may be worth something. The idea has essentially been fully endorsed by some very knowledgeable people who have had success at picking the right ideas in the past. If the startup is run by a bunch…

> honestly I could care less what their ideas are unless they've had some great successes in the past. That's pretty shallow don't you think?

That came off a bit harsh. I mean, I could care less about stealing their ideas if they haven't got a track record. I obviously find everyone's ideas and startups interesting, otherwise I wouldn't be on HN as often as I am.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#73

If you're not marketing to tech people, then you've got nothing to gain and everything to lose by talking about it on places like HN. As usual, I'll give Patrick of Bingo Card Creator as my example. He has been completely transparent with us guys about what he's doing and how he's doing it. We have a complete blueprint for how to compete with him. None of us are going to bother, because it's a very small market oppor…

Someone from the Joel on Software forums has actually copied his bingo idea. This was a couple of years ago I think.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#74
post #33

The point of "stealth mode" is timing. You can gain significant market advantage by springing the surprise on your (potential) competitors instead of giving them X months advance notice of your plans and ideas. Prominent recent example: ipad 2010. It was rumored alright, still I bet it led to significant constipation at Plastic Logic, Microsoft, or Amazon, not to mention all those netbook builders. To think that Plas…

I thought the ipad caught the competition off guard not because of the timing, people have made slate tablets before, but because of the pricing. When rumours of the ipad started to float around, most people seemed to believe it would be a ~$1000 device.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#75

I have several ideas that could make millions. Honestly, but I am only one person and I don't have a team of developers. Wish I did, but I don't. I also don't have the money to quit my job either. So I keep my ideas extremely close to center so I can work on them one at a time. Heck, I even have an idea that would change the way politics in general is viewed by the public. Its revolutionary and could have a huge infl…

You know, I had an idea like that once. A long time ago. Well, all right. It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. You see, it would be this mat that you would put on the floor, and it would have different conclusions written on it that you could jump to.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#76
because reality's all fucked-up

27 19 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' 28 But I say to you, everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 20 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.

I guess I plead guilty. I love that Visa commercial, "your brother's shot... priceless". Now you know.

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Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#77

If you're not marketing to tech people, then you've got nothing to gain and everything to lose by talking about it on places like HN. As usual, I'll give Patrick of Bingo Card Creator as my example. He has been completely transparent with us guys about what he's doing and how he's doing it. We have a complete blueprint for how to compete with him. None of us are going to bother, because it's a very small market oppor…

Yes, the alternative to this is the patent scheme the pharma industry uses. Think about it - a drug may be trivially simple to manufacture, the hard part is developing it in the first place then shepherding it through the FDA approval process. So they rely on patents because secrecy at that scale is impossible.

For an example closer to home, did you never wonder how RMS working alone was able to put Symbolics out of business? Because he waited for them to discover what users wanted, the hard part, then he simply copied the implementation and gave it away for free. If they'd gone stealth, maybe we'd all be using LispM's today. Now we'll never know.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#78
post #77

If you're not marketing to tech people, then you've got nothing to gain and everything to lose by talking about it on places like HN. As usual, I'll give Patrick of Bingo Card Creator as my example. He has been completely transparent with us guys about what he's doing and how he's doing it. We have a complete blueprint for how to compete with him. None of us are going to bother, because it's a very small market oppor…

Yes, the alternative to this is the patent scheme the pharma industry uses. Think about it - a drug may be trivially simple to manufacture, the hard part is developing it in the first place then shepherding it through the FDA approval process. So they rely on patents because secrecy at that scale is impossible. For an example closer to home, did you never wonder how RMS working alone was able to put Symbolics out of…

If one guy working from a closet at MIT can destroy your multi-million dollar business, then you are in the wrong business.

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#79
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really any software you can build in hours or days and return vast sums of money? If you have a really specific market, I would imagine even if the software itself was simple, the challenge would be marketing it to that group.

If there is, he's probably not going to tell you about it. :)

Exactly: Like some guy who creates software that wins a lottery or horse races or whatever and is raking it in. What incentive does he have to share that with anybody?

Re: Ask HN: If ideas are worthless, why are some startups in stealth mode?

#80
post #53

I remember reading somewhere that talking about a project you're going to start makes you less likely to work on it, because talking about it is satisfying. If you go public, you might be less motivated to actually make progress. I've found this to be true for myself, but I can't remember where this idea came from... I wish I had a citation for you.

OK, I'll get hell for this, but still, it fits. I probably have a less "airy" quote somewhere, but this is what I found right now. All the next text is quote:

I cannot emphasize too strongly that you should tell no one just what the words on the cards mean nor give anyone an inkling of what you desire. To do so may end disastrously for you. When you get a better understanding of this science, you can understand how thought vibrations -- conscious or unconscious, because of envy or some other cause -- can be set up to counteract your own,

To illustrate this, I am reminded of a doctor friend who applied for a commission in the Navy during the early days of World War II. He closed his office, told everyone that he was joining the Navy, and found himself the recipient of many parties and gifts. "It taught me a lesson never to tell anyone of my plans or desires," he laughingly told me later. "It was two years before I received notice of assignment, and meanwhile I had to go back into private practice, It certainly was embarrassing to get all those various farewell gifts, only to cool my heels at home for two years."

The truth is that when you talk about what you're going to do, you scatter your forces. You lose your close connection with the subconscious, and unless you do as directed here, you will frequently have to start all over again in your program of achievement.

"Go and tell no man," still holds true. -- The Magic of Believing - Claude M. Bristol; pg. 87

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