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Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

latimes.com

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Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#21

Post by bloaf »

Osmium wrote: post #18
bloaf wrote: post #8

This is part of a long and slow change in the role of higher education. Previously, college was seen as being for people who academically deserved it. College was not for teaching high-school level concepts, it was for teaching advanced concepts to students who had already demonstrated some bona fides. Now, it is seen as an extension of high school; the onus is on the college to mold all comers into more educated and…

> Now, it is seen as an extension of high school; the onus is on the college to mold all comers into more educated and productive citizens, even if that means re-teaching the basics. This seems to be the case with grad programs now too: doing the teaching that undergrad should have already done. Turtles all the way down.

In which departments have you seen that? [Not denying, genuinely curious]

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#22

Post by bebop »

tyingq wrote: post #17
akhilcacharya wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cal State LA Accept rate: 68% UCLA Accept Rate: 18%

Cal Poly Accept rate: 29.5% UC Irvine Accept rate: 40.7% Not sure where we're going with this though.

Even better, UC Merced Acceptance rate: 73.7%

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#23

Post by oculusthrift »

lambdaphagy wrote: post #14
Clubber wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you insinuating white people don't need remedial classes?

There's an entire department of the federal government whose first, or perhaps even only, priority is to deal with the fact that OP indelicately mentioned.

which department? i seem to be missing the implication

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#24

Post by justin_vanw »

Clubber wrote: post #9
xienze wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing that there's such a thing as remedial classes in a university, but hey, how else are we going to get an adequately diverse student body?

Are you insinuating white people don't need remedial classes?

Of course all kinds of people can land in these remedial classes if they are not prepared.

Now, I ask you, which schools do a better job of preparing students for college level work, the schools white kids get to go to or the schools black kids have to go to? If you are wondering, look at the AP classes offered at say Palo Alto high school vs Crenshaw high school:

http://schools.latimes.com/school/los-angeles/crenshaw-senio...

http://schools.latimes.com/school/palo-alto/palo-alto-high/

Highlights:

Proficient in Math: PA: 76% Crenshaw: 2.5% (not a typo)

Proficient in English: PA: 84% Crenshaw: 18%

Now, are you saying we shouldn't let bright kids from bad schools get into college?

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#25

Post by cookiecaper »

Osmium wrote: post #18
bloaf wrote: post #8

This is part of a long and slow change in the role of higher education. Previously, college was seen as being for people who academically deserved it. College was not for teaching high-school level concepts, it was for teaching advanced concepts to students who had already demonstrated some bona fides. Now, it is seen as an extension of high school; the onus is on the college to mold all comers into more educated and…

> Now, it is seen as an extension of high school; the onus is on the college to mold all comers into more educated and productive citizens, even if that means re-teaching the basics. This seems to be the case with grad programs now too: doing the teaching that undergrad should have already done. Turtles all the way down.

There is strong financial incentive among power brokers to promote as much tuition cost and student debt as humanly possible, especially when the government underwrites it, making it zero-cost to both the lender and the school. The only losers are the taxpayers, who are abstract enough to be a non-entity, and the student, who is made to believe that he must obtain and service such debt to have a successful adult life.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#26

Post by oculusthrift »

bloaf wrote: post #21
Osmium wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, it is seen as an extension of high school; the onus is on the college to mold all comers into more educated and productive citizens, even if that means re-teaching the basics. This seems to be the case with grad programs now too: doing the teaching that undergrad should have already done. Turtles all the way down.

In which departments have you seen that? [Not denying, genuinely curious]

i've seen some pretty shitty grad students but i don't really blame the grad school. a lot of non-cs undergrads go into cs grad programs with barely any programming experience. in my experience, the grad programs don't teach them the fundamentals (assuming they know them) but instead teach very specific niche areas. They end up never learning basic programming fundamentals.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#28

Post by lambdaphagy »

oculusthrift wrote: post #23
lambdaphagy wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an entire department of the federal government whose first, or perhaps even only, priority is to deal with the fact that OP indelicately mentioned.

which department? i seem to be missing the implication

Most directly, Ed. But now that you mention it, Justice is a close second.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#29

Post by aslkdjaslkdj »

oculusthrift wrote: post #26
bloaf wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which departments have you seen that? [Not denying, genuinely curious]

i've seen some pretty shitty grad students but i don't really blame the grad school. a lot of non-cs undergrads go into cs grad programs with barely any programming experience. in my experience, the grad programs don't teach them the fundamentals (assuming they know them) but instead teach very specific niche areas. They end up never learning basic programming fundamentals.

If someone is studying computability or formal languages or algorithms or ML in a CS department, they don't really need to be programmers.

Re: Cal State will no longer require math and English placement exams

#30

Post by seibelj »

I recently interviewed a master's CS student at a decent state school looking for a part-time job. She had barely programmed before the master's CS (undergrad was in MIS). Did not know what a hash table / dictionary / etc. was. So troubling for someone soon to graduate with a master's in CS.
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