Live data from Hacker News

Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

hosted.ap.org

21–30 of 90 posts

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#21

What escapes this whole shebang is the fact that his post went Viral inside google. Would he have been fired if it didn't?

Perhaps not. But I don't see the fact that he wrote it as the proximal cause for his firing. I suspect it's the fact that his PR event caused by the memo makes it harder for the company to hire women and to draw a clear distinction between Google company culture and, say, Uber company culture.

Or, put another way, the PR makes it harder for Google to defend itself in lawsuits from current or former female employees alleging discrimination. Would failure to discharge Damore itself constitute grounds for a complaint of a hostile work environment?

There is some heavy legal machinery firing underneath the covers here, forcing Google's hand.

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. 3, 2, 1 ... Lets see what he wrote that was so offensive, remembering that it was to a private list and only posted to the wider Internet by Googles 'diversity' chief Danielle Brown. "Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber" https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

The crux of the argument was: 1. There are biological differences between men and women. 2. Because #1 and and evolutionary psychology, this makes women bad engineers. 3. Because #1 and #2, diversity programs are harmful. Saying one of those three things creates a hostile work environment. Nothing in that manifesto provided any unique, novel, or original insight. It was the same old, same-old, 'computers are for boys…

No.

Arguments #2 and #3 were not made. Argument #1 is utterly uncontroversial.

Please read the essay.

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#23
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

citation?

Here you go: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/08/technology/google-enginee...

> "He conducted research in computational biology at Harvard, Princeton and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology before joining a Ph.D. program at Harvard. He dropped out before completing the program."

P.S this is not a quote from James Damore directly

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Liberals / progressives keep missing the point - silencing your opposition and calling them names You're conflating a political movement with a company doing PR damage control. Google management didn't "call him names". You're not thinking about it like a corporate manager. Google is trying hard not to be seen as just another Frat startup like Uber (albeit an older one). They are actively trying to hire the best en…

> You're conflating a political movement with a company doing PR damage control. Google management didn't "call him names". Google is heavily invested in the political movement. Lets not pretend google is an objective observer in this. > They are actively trying to hire the best engineers in the world and this memo just put a dent in their hiring process for 50% of their potential hiring candidates. Can you point to…

>Google is heavily invested in the political movement.

What "political movement" did the guy they fired represent? "All men are created equal" is a political statement, "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" is a political statement, "Half the world's population is unsuitable for technical work because of their gender" is bigoted nonsense. That he tried to use discredited pseudo-science to back up his statement doesn't make it any more valid than bigoted nonsense from less educated people.

If he had kept his nonsense to himself, it wouldn't have been a major issue for Google. But because he chose to share it with his coworkers, who then leaked it, they were put in a position where if they kept him on, they would be seen as endorsing the nonsense, but if they fired him, they were seeing as joining in some kind of political crusade.

Bottom line: the core thesis of the "manifesto" was on par with eugenics, anti-vaxxer propaganda, or anti-climate FUD. If someone in their HR department was seen as embracing those ideas and encouraging their coworkers to put them into practice, Google would probably fire them as well.

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.. 3, 2, 1 ... Lets see what he wrote that was so offensive, remembering that it was to a private list and only posted to the wider Internet by Googles 'diversity' chief Danielle Brown. "Google’s Ideological Echo Chamber" https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

The crux of the argument was: 1. There are biological differences between men and women. 2. Because #1 and and evolutionary psychology, this makes women bad engineers. 3. Because #1 and #2, diversity programs are harmful. Saying one of those three things creates a hostile work environment. Nothing in that manifesto provided any unique, novel, or original insight. It was the same old, same-old, 'computers are for boys…

[deleted]

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#26

Liberals / progressives keep missing the point - silencing your opposition and calling them names only shows how weak your side of the argument is. That's how you get 4 more years of Trump. Fight bad ideas with better ideas, better arguments.

> Liberals / progressives keep missing the point - silencing your opposition and calling them names You're conflating a political movement with a company doing PR damage control. Google management didn't "call him names". You're not thinking about it like a corporate manager. Google is trying hard not to be seen as just another Frat startup like Uber (albeit an older one). They are actively trying to hire the best en…

You have some strong points in here, except one which is worth pointing out:

> Google management didn't "call him names".

Google's management (including its CEO) did, however, repeatedly lie and misrepresent the essay as justification for their actions.

This was cruel and should not be forgotten.

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#27

For the life of me I still can't figure out what he wrote that was so offensive. I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote. Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people?

The statement by Google's CEO categorizes some specific sections of the the article into the "okay" bin, and some sections into the "fireable" bin. That's about as good as a start as you are likely to get.

https://www.blog.google/topics/diversity/note-employees-ceo-...

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#29

For the life of me I still can't figure out what he wrote that was so offensive. I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote. Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people?

> I see people attacking him in general terms, calling him a bigot/sexist/etc, but they never mention anything specific he wrote.

You don't need to have any specific valid reason to be offended unfortunately.

> Can anyone point to anything specific that is upsetting so many people?

Also being offended is quite contagious also.

Re: Fired Google engineer files complaint, weighs legal options

#30
post #28

For those who discuss this as "being fired for wrongthink": Companies fire people for lack of cultural fit. How is this any different?

If I brought my employer bad press or just made myself enough of a bother with complaints about their tabs vs. spaces dictate I could be fired.
Post reply on HN