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Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

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Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#51

Post by notatoad »

jotux wrote: post #41
gervase wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect the thought process is something like, "Collaboration makes the office more productive. Therefore, if we force the employees to collaborate all the time , we can maximize productivity!"

I suspect it's much simpler than that. Open floor plans give less square footage per person so you get more people per building. It's just cheaper to build open floor plans.

The "it's cheaper" argument for open-plan offices only really works when the company hasn't spent $5bn+ on the building. They could probably have quadrupled the floor space for the same price.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#52

Post by joezydeco »

maxxxxx wrote: post #14

It seems a lot of managers live in that phantasy world where people do nothing but collaborate. Do they really think that code gets written that way?

That's what the managers have decided...while sitting in their closed-door office meetings.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#53

Post by rm445 »

molestrangler wrote: post #19

This is only a rumour, I would wait for some photos to appear to confirm this. Anyone got any recent images now people have started moving in?

I was under the impression that when John Gruber quotes a 'rumour', it's because someone at Apple has personally given him complete, direct, but off-the-record information. He seems very well-connected.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#54

Post by hkmurakami »

nashashmi wrote: post #15

Man, I remember in college when we would be working long hours in the library on a computer lined up in a row of computers. Every one would be intensely working on what they needed to. Sometimes two would work together. This was especially true before presentations when we were trying to put our stuff together. It was neat. It was collaborative. It was fun. And we were happy. Open floor plan is reminiscent of those d…

The default being quiet, and respect for others doing focused work and trying your best to not distract them, was certainly a key ingredient.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#55

Post by exergy »

loco5niner wrote: post #17

Hopefully, more and more companies experience backlash from this. It is a horrific mistake to add distracting elements to most programmers environments. Even worse, in my open office plan, they put our very loud finance group right next to us. Absolutely no thought of noise management was considered, except for putting in horrible "white noise" generators that set off my tinnitus Thankfully, my direct manager is unde…

Fuck, that sounds awful.

It's hard for me to believe that there are techies who haven't ever heard of Peopleware, have never heard of Joel Spolsky and his FogBugz offices, and have never consulted even a single authority on what makes software developers productive. It's even harder to believe that those people are responsible for diverting giant sums of money towards making palatial office buildings that will house thousands of such developers.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#56

Post by chank »

My company recently switched to an open floor plan. It's done nothing but increase distractions and office gossip. Everyone I know tries to get away from their desk as often as possible. Ducking into side rooms, attempting to work from home, and just plain using any excuse to escape the zoo.

Management loves open plans because it's the cheapest seating arrangement. They claim that it will increase collaboration while exempting themselves from having to deal with the environment. The truth is that just being able to see someone without walking over to their desk isn't going to magically make you communicate with them more or make your output higher. Some people like open floor plans but it's been my experience most people don't and just grin and bear it while slowly dying inside.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#57

Post by loco5niner »

nashashmi wrote: post #15

Man, I remember in college when we would be working long hours in the library on a computer lined up in a row of computers. Every one would be intensely working on what they needed to. Sometimes two would work together. This was especially true before presentations when we were trying to put our stuff together. It was neat. It was collaborative. It was fun. And we were happy. Open floor plan is reminiscent of those d…

Probably the fact that in a library, there is a cultural expectation of quiet, built over the years by librarians shushing loud people. Thus, if you want a quiet place to work, you go to a library. I need a librarian in my (open) office.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#58

Post by hkmurakami »

It's really kind of amazing to me how in 20 years we've gone from laughing at the cacophonous, claustrophobic, diseases-transmission-inducing, open office plans of other economic regions (ex: the traditional Japanese office http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CadIFZ3h638/T7yGtzdxVDI/AAAAAAAABe..., or the Wall Street trading floor), to precisely emulating their layouts (with better superficial aesthetic design), inheriting both their economic efficiency and productivity inefficiencies.

I'll take a cube farm with 5 feet walls any day over an open office.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#59

Post by Veratyr »

nashashmi wrote: post #15

Man, I remember in college when we would be working long hours in the library on a computer lined up in a row of computers. Every one would be intensely working on what they needed to. Sometimes two would work together. This was especially true before presentations when we were trying to put our stuff together. It was neat. It was collaborative. It was fun. And we were happy. Open floor plan is reminiscent of those d…

Perhaps it's the expectation of near silence (you might work together but you'll keep your voice down) and lack of visual noise in the library?

In my open plan office I have:

- People walking past my desk

- People walking behind me

- People walking in front of me, over the "wall"

- A team that regularly has stand up meetings behind me

- Coworkers that talk loudly at their own desks, near mine

- Coworkers that talk loudly in a small more private area, ~10ft away

- A small meeting room with a door that doesn't isolate noise very well

- A kitchen ~20ft away with a loud espresso machine

Plus, I'm in a large room and can hear conversations up to 50ft away. Given the number of people, there's nearly always one happening.

In a library, you've got a quiet space with an expectation that people will keep their voices down. Study desks often have high walls in the front and to the sides, to block out visual noise. They're also often isolated from major traffic areas.

Libraries are designed to optimize intellectual work and study, open plan offices are absolutely not.

Re: Apple staffers reportedly rebelling against open office plan

#60

Post by exergy »

homosaphien1 wrote: post #40

I might be in the minority but I HATE cubicle farms and love open office design. Just give every a sound cancellation headphone if they complain. To me cubical farms are depressing.

There are many of us who code in spurts, and spend the rest of the time goofing off on Reddit or hacker news. At the same time, we'd prefer not to get judged on what percentage of time we have Facebook open on our monitors, and more on the work we do. But when everyone can see what you're doing, it's hard to get rid of the nagging feeling that you're being watched.
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