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Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

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Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#121

Post by paapi__gudiya »

tylersmith wrote: post #37
int_19h wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not the Ex-Google guy with his medium rant about how people would punch him in the face and he would understand. Could you give a link to that rant?

https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/so-about-this-googlers-man...

This whole episode has been so disgusting and shows how regressive and authoritarian the mainstream tech community is.

People can't work with someone because he has a different point of view about injustice in the society and has the courage to voice it respectfully? They would resort to violence against someone because they have a different point of view?

If you can resort to violence against someone and get away with it, you're the oppressor in the society, not the oppressed.

Sundar, Yonatan and their likes are so privileged and delusional. These people have no issue with a war-criminal like Kissinger being invited to talk at Google but have such serious issues with a software engineer writing his views.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#122

Post by tomjen3 »

kevinburke wrote: post #59
naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

A right to free speech doesn't mean you are also free from any consequences for that speech.. ? The Constitution allows you to say whatever you want but your employer's also free to fire you for saying it. As an example, if you say racist things to a customer, your employer should be able to fire you. I have heard people say he should get fired, but I haven't heard anyone saying he should be "expelled from society" o…

That is an is-ought argument. There is absolutely no good reason political views and free speech and can't, and shouldn't, be added as protected classes.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#123

Post by dqv »

kuschku wrote: post #68
wfunction wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever in Gizmodo redacted or allowed the reduction of the 25+ citations should be fired. That was such irresponsible journalism that it honestly looks actively malicious, and it wasn't matter what side you're on. You can't remove all the support someone provides for their position and hide it behind a short and vague disclaimer while presenting it as though it's materially equivalent to the original. If their evide…

​

The only link that I could find in his memo that could classify as a random WordPress blog was a summary of an article posted in a peer reviewed journal.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#124

Post by gbarc888 »

eco wrote: post #19

> Media outlets like TechCrunch, Gizmodo and Motherboard jumped on board to declare the memo an “Anti-Diversity Manifesto.” It appears that the ideological echo chamber extends beyond Google’s campus. As I look up and see this article flagged on HN (since unflagged). The points and ideas from his memo may be wrong or they may be right (or anywhere in between) but more important than this incident has been the reactio…

It just got flagged again. How does this flagging thing work?

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#125

Post by bilbo0s »

nxsynonym wrote: post #102
kafkaesq wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast ... Maybe some people are calling for stuff like that. But that's not what Google's doing to him. Google's just saying: "You can't do that here ."

That's kind of the point though. Google is one of, if not the, biggest player in terms of information served over the internet. If they are willing to censor at this level, how far will they go to protect their public image and suppress discussion they don't agree with?

But Google isn't really "censor"-ing anyone.

Any more than I "censor" you if you come on to my property and refer to my daughter as the "c"-word. I mean... you can call my daughter whatever you like, I just don't allow you to do it in my house. That's not really censorship no matter how big the house is, that's just something that people should expect to happen. In fact... I think people should find it more strange if my daughter and I did NOT put you out of our house.

You can still call her whatever you like outside of our home. You're still free to do that.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#126

Post by rifung »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #23
sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

A false dichotomy. A third: Google is currently in hot water with the Department of Labor for their extreme gender pay gap and wants a PR win.

Disclaimer: I work for Google

I assume you're talking about when the Department of Labor asked for more information on employees? If so, I don't believe they actually found any gender pay gap; they were merely asking for more data which Google refused to give up due to privacy concerns.

The judge ruled in Google's favor so it's hardly "hot water" (https://techcrunch.com/2017/07/16/judge-sides-with-google-in...)

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#127

Post by MBCook »

nxsynonym wrote: post #28
gobugat wrote: post #7

> "Companies don’t have viewpoints." They do. Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Many would want to think that these issues are apolitical, or scientific, or anything "neutral". They are not. Make no mistake. This is a fight. A struggle between two visions of the world, maybe more. Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. Sooner or later, one must take a stand, which is exactly what Google execut…

Companies can and should have view points. However, firing anyone who disagrees with those viewpoints is a knee-jerk reaction to avoid any negative press. They could have reacted with a "Google does not support or endorse the views expressed", and let the rest happen naturally. This is censorship. Yes, it's within a privately owned company, but it is very clearly a suppression of intellectual debate. Why not encourag…

Lots of companies have done the 'we don't condone' thing, and the people effected by these kind of views often view that as tacit approval and make decisions (partnering, investing, employment, etc) based on that.

A small soon as this became publicly known Google had to take a stand one way or the other. They may not INTEND to, but a big chunk of the audience (on either side) would have seen it as such.

Heck if they tried to ride the middle some/many women may have felt betrayed and unwanted and some/many men felt ignored or slighted.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#128

Post by daxorid »

macspoofing wrote: post #6

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from "Head of Diversity" and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more? The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.

It's not that it's a "big deal". It's that any public dissenters from the secular religion of Progressivism must be humiliated and destroyed, publicly. This is designed to ensure that any other employees who may blaspheme in the future are strongly discouraged from opening their filthy, heretical mouths.

This is also nothing new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Struggle_session

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#129

Post by pktgen »

blfr wrote: post #9

Has he set Google up for this blowup or do Americans just usually have complaints to federal regulators written and ready to send? Before being fired, Mr. Damore said, he had submitted a complaint to the National Labor Relations Board claiming that Google’s upper management was “misrepresenting and shaming me in order to silence my complaints.” He added that it was “illegal to retaliate” against an N.L.R.B. charge. h…

It only takes a few minutes to file a NLRB charge. The charge form only requires a brief summary of the allegations (a few sentences, at most) and specifically tells you not to include any evidence (you provide that later, during or after meeting with a Board agent).

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#130

Post by lliamander »

kafkaesq wrote: post #73
naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast ... Maybe some people are calling for stuff like that. But that's not what Google's doing to him. Google's just saying: "You can't do that here ."

And is arguably walking a very fine line in doing so.

IANAL, but it is illegal for employers to use the threat of firing to compel employees to take (or avoid) a political course of action.

Furthermore, it is illegal for employers to punish employees for speaking up about issues the employee believes affect working conditions (which was largely the premise of the employees essay).

Google side-stepped the issue by firing him for statements which may (or may not) violate anti-discrimination policies that just so happened to be in his essay.

They left largely unchallenged (and it seems to me, rather reinforced) the central complaint. Namely that Google was fostering a politically stifling atmosphere.

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