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Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

bloomberg.com

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Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#81

Post by dcole2929 »

int_19h wrote: post #25
naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

> Not the Ex-Google guy with his medium rant about how people would punch him in the face and he would understand. Could you give a link to that rant?

That's a mischaracterization of his argument. Essentially the author argues that right or wrong the manifesto is especially polarizing and the engineer has essentially made it very difficult for him to work with anyone else at Google moving forward. Zunger in no way states that he condones, or suggests the action of punching the manifesto guy in the face, he just outlines it as a possible reaction, of releasing a company wide manifesto, which could uncharitably be interpreted to call into question the merits of female and other minority engineers.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#82

Post by throwa34943way »

The problem here is the people assuming "diversity" means actual diversity.

Just like "inclusiveness" or "safe space". They do not mean what most people unaware of the political use of these expressions mean. These expressions are politically loaded.

The confusion is orchestrated, on purpose, by the ideologues who redefined these words. Who can say he is against diversity? inclusiveness? safe-spaces, off course people want to be safe! these are positive words. Until you actually understand that a safe space isn't a physical safe space but a ideological safe space, where dissidence is prohibited.

For the "ignorant", they mean one thing, for the ideologues, they have a complete different meaning.

I too was completely fooled by the post-modernist double speak and engaged in the attack of the people who were against these "concepts", I too engaged in witch-hunts, before I truly understood how these words were politically loaded and didn't mean what I thought they meant. It is extremely subtle and cunning. Redefinition of words is an extremely effective and manipulative weapon.

People say, well, keep politics out of work and you'll be fine. But if the internal rules at work use expressions such as diversity, inclusiveness or safe-space, these are politically loaded at first place! your work environment IS adopting the intersectional ideological framework.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#83

Post by canoebuilder »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #46
canoebuilder wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"proportional representation of the population" metric? Is there some reason the social disrupters only get all frothy mouthed about this in certain areas? Like shouldn't we spend much more time going after the NBA, Fishing, Logging, Elementary teachers, Nurses, etc. because these industries are far more out of "diversity balance." Are people clamoring for a "proportional representation of the population" metric prep…

Your point is pertinent and well-made in the latter part of your post, but the ad-hominem language in the former makes it difficult to believe you want to discuss the issue.

Some people seem to have an unhealthy bias against colorful language when it is used in service of a larger point. But they seem all too happy to use it as a distraction from engaging with the points raised.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#84

Post by unethical_ban »

gbarc888 wrote: post #30
macspoofing wrote: post #6

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from "Head of Diversity" and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more? The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.

It went viral within google. I think it surfaced a lot of repressed things that people were thinking but afraid to say -- maybe some faction of googlers believed that there were silent sexists within the company, and this validated that belief. Maybe another faction of googlers believed that they were reverse-discriminated against, and this validated THEIR belief as well. It is unfortunate that it took this memo to e…

This proves a point that suppressing dissent helps grow divides we all know exist, without helping fix it.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#85

Post by baccheion »

My time at Google many years ago led me to the conclusion that they are completely full of it. Many employees are repulsive, off-putting, and enjoy treating others like nothing. They also couldn't care less about diversity.

Based on their diversity report, only ~200 (of ~20,000) software engineers are black, which is still likely an exaggeration, as I bet many are software engineers in test.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#87

Post by nxsynonym »

gobugat wrote: post #80
nxsynonym wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies can and should have view points. However, firing anyone who disagrees with those viewpoints is a knee-jerk reaction to avoid any negative press. They could have reacted with a "Google does not support or endorse the views expressed", and let the rest happen naturally. This is censorship. Yes, it's within a privately owned company, but it is very clearly a suppression of intellectual debate. Why not encourag…

Here is an "intellectual debate" for you: hairdressers are a danger to society and should be exterminated. Why don't you want to have it? Why censoring a potentially valid viewpoint?

I'm not following.

I will gladly debate this with you. Don't assume I don't want to engage, or that I would attempt to censor your view.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#88

Post by noncoml »

leereeves wrote: post #14
sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

> unsupported Did you only read the Gizmodo version that removed all the references? Here's a copy with the references: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

I don't see many references. I just see a lot of stereotyping with no citations at all. Eg:

> Women, on average, have more:

> ● Openness directed towards feelings and aesthetics rather than ideas. Women generally also have a stronger interest in people rather than things, relative to men (also interpreted as empathizing vs. systemizing)

> ● Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness.

> ● Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance).

A bit further down:

> Men’s higher drive for status

> We always ask why we don't see women in top leadership positions, but we never ask why we see so many men in these jobs. These positions often require long, stressful hours that may not be worth it if you want a balanced and fulfilling life.

Holy crap!

- Edit below this line -

This is not expressing a different opinion based on facts, but pure stereotyping.

As a person who appreciates logic in arguments, I wouldn't like to work or have an argument with someone who presents his views of the world as axioms without data to support them.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#89

Post by amyjess »

naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

If I were to tell multiple co-workers to their face that they are inferior to me, I would be fired. This guy told a very large amount of his co-workers that they're inferior to him, and he posted it all over the Internet for everyone to see.

You'd be hard pressed to find a company where leveling personal attacks against your co-workers isn't a fireable offense.

Freedom of speech isn't the same thing as freedom from the consequences of his actions. All it means is you can't be jailed or executed for it. You are not entitled to have people continue to have you in their lives.

Furthermore, his employer has a right to freedom of association, and they have chosen to exercise that right by ceasing to associate with him.

If this is authoritarian, than I will proudly call myself an authoritarian. Perhaps Hobbes was right after all.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#90

Post by macrael »

naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

I haven't finished this because it is very long, but it is good. Do you believe in the paradox of tolerance?

http://tim.dreamwidth.org/2035407.html

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