Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#11

Post by ocdtrekkie » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:19 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #6

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from "Head of Diversity" and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more? The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.

Consider that Google is currently facing a wage discrimination case from the US Department of Labor, so they're likely in the mood to go above and beyond to distance themselves from the author's attitudes.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#12

Post by fwn » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

gobugat wrote: post #7

> "Companies don’t have viewpoints." They do. Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Many would want to think that these issues are apolitical, or scientific, or anything "neutral". They are not. Make no mistake. This is a fight. A struggle between two visions of the world, maybe more. Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. Sooner or later, one must take a stand, which is exactly what Google execut…

> Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments.

They are. At least that's how civilised societies would handle it. It could be a textbook example of a decision a civil discourse could approach.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#13

Post by danharaj » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

What else could Google have done? He made himself a visibly toxic employee to have on most teams. This might be weird to some people, but at work you have to work with other people, and while it may be OK to hold belief in general, advocating for it at work can make it harder for you to work with others.

Abstract free speech crashes and burns in any situation where you can't select your peers.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#14

Post by leereeves » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

> unsupported

Did you only read the Gizmodo version that removed all the references?

Here's a copy with the references:

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3914586/Googles-I...

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#15

Post by canoebuilder » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

dangerlibrary wrote: post #2

Is any organization of meaningful size (# of employees, revenue, market cap - pick your metric) handling diversity issues in a way that completely satisfies the "proportional representation of the population" metric? Are there any success stories that one could use as case studies?

"proportional representation of the population" metric?

Is there some reason the social disrupters only get all frothy mouthed about this in certain areas? Like shouldn't we spend much more time going after the NBA, Fishing, Logging, Elementary teachers, Nurses, etc. because these industries are far more out of "diversity balance."

Are people clamoring for a "proportional representation of the population" metric prepared to fire a whole lot of Asians and Jews at places like Facebook and Google in order to bring these populations more in line with their broader United States society proportions?

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#16

Post by quickben » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

It depends. Is Google 50-50 male female ratio, or 95-5?

Likelihood usually change on the environment, just look at Uber.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#17

Post by ucaetano » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #6

I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it a) got all the press that it got and b) that it required a personal condemnation from "Head of Diversity" and the CEO - who will now hold a town-hall to, I guess, denounce it even more? The entire thing seems like a big nothing-burger from every side.

> I am surprised how big this 'manifesto' got. Is it really that big of a deal that it

I'd guess that you feel that way because you're not affected by the issues discussed in the essay. I've been there myself, it takes a lot of time and effort to understand the real impact of something that doesn't impact yourself.

Also, please don't think that I'm judging you or saying that you're a bad person because of it. We all share the same difficulties, and that doesn't make us better or worse, just humans.

If I had a superpower, it would be making people see the world through other people's eyes.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#18

Post by onewhonknocks » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

sidlls wrote: post #8

What's more likely: the author was fired for suggesting alternate methods of improving diversity at Google or the author was fired for repeating unsupported gender stereotypes, offering alternate methods that themselves played on gender stereotypes, and creating an environment in which he would not be able to effectively carry out his responsibilities as a result of promoting gender stereotypes?

Neither ought to be acceptable, IMHO.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#19

Post by eco » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

> Media outlets like TechCrunch, Gizmodo and Motherboard jumped on board to declare the memo an “Anti-Diversity Manifesto.” It appears that the ideological echo chamber extends beyond Google’s campus.

As I look up and see this article flagged on HN (since unflagged).

The points and ideas from his memo may be wrong or they may be right (or anywhere in between) but more important than this incident has been the reaction to it. I don't understand the attempts at shutting down conversation about it. If you think he's wrong, you share your opinion and persuade others. You don't shut down the conversation and pretend the issues don't exist.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#20

Post by tracker1 » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 8:21 PM UTC

gobugat wrote: post #7

> "Companies don’t have viewpoints." They do. Not reacting would have been an endorsement. Many would want to think that these issues are apolitical, or scientific, or anything "neutral". They are not. Make no mistake. This is a fight. A struggle between two visions of the world, maybe more. Such conflicts are not won over peaceful arguments. Sooner or later, one must take a stand, which is exactly what Google execut…

Yeah... nothing to debate, no points of contention, nothing to see here... it's how I see it, and if you don't agree, I'll shut you down. Sounds open to new ideas and diverse opinions to me.