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Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
961–970 of 1001 posts
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#962One thing that bothers me as someone who works at Google (but is speaking purely his own opinion) is that this manifesto implies some pretty wrong things about our hiring process. In particular, it conflates diversity sourcing programs with a lower hiring bar. As an engineer who's done a fair bit of volunteer recruiting work as well as conducted interviews, my experience has been that race- and gender-specific progra…
Wouldn't that explain, then, why women are underrepresented at Google? If 500 males get "thrown over the fence" and, say, 5 make it through... that means if 50 females get "thrown over the fence" it is reasonable to expect 0 will make it through.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#963People can't seem to summarize his argument without getting much of it grossly wrong, because his manifesto was a haphazard collection of good points, bad points, good arguments, lousy arguments, misrepresentations of others' views, and unstated implications. A perfect recipe for people to argue past each other about it. It's worth remembering that one of his conclusions was to end or replace gender-based diversity p…
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Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#964A company that claims to embrace diversity does not tolerate a diverse opinion - right or wrong. I can understand why San Fran is so anti-conservative, but I cannot accept this blatant hypocrisy of being so intolerant and even aggressive towards those who dare to divert! Companies like Google do something worse than censorship - they induce self-censorship, which is something that even the Commies failed to accomplis…
>I cannot accept this blatant hypocrisy of being so intolerant and even aggressive towards those who dare to divert! This is not about purging the company of people with different ideologies. This is about a person who thought it was appropriate to publicly question not just the ability of their co-workers, but whether they are fundamentally capable of performing. Regardless of the accuracy of his statements, this wa…
I was raised during Communism in Bulgaria, and at that time, women had equal rights in my country unlike here in America or in some Western European countries! And this was the case well before I was born! Since 1945, women were stimulated to take traditionally male jobs - from operating heavy machinery to military training. My country was proud of women succeeding and even exceeding men in the full spectrum of life. But even during that well-established equality, women were nowhere to be found in Computer Science! It wasn't about abilities; it wasn't about opportunities - it was about desires and interest! Although many of the teachers were female, very few of the students were, too. And nobody - men or women, - thought something was wrong about that situation, and that something had to change! I believe there are a lot of parasitic organizations in the States that find existence in blowing non-issues out of proportions! Although we're equal in intellect, we're emotionally different, and we have different interests! So, to try to compensate for that artificially is harmful, not helping genders, races, or ethnicities in any way! If there are documented cases of bias, they need to be severely persecuted, but to "prove" bias by assuming that if mental abilities are the same, then women, blacks, and Bulgarians should be proportionally employed at Google as well, is a fallacy!
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#965Earlier quoted context omitted.
You imply bias in the the hiring process is what is causing the gender imbalance in tech. Indicators such university enrollment in CS programs show that this is unlikely to be the case. If the author is wrong, that there definitely isn't some inherit genetic behavioral bias influencing job choice, than the bias is happening before students finish highschool. I'm a proponent for an "early bias" theory because of far l…
> The right way to fix the imbalance is to increase the supply of white onions. In the real world, farmers would begin switching to white onions and the supply would increase. I think you've got it backwards. In the real world, supply is increased to meet demand. Farmers aren't going to grow more white onions just to see what happens. They've got to believe it's going to be a more profitable crop because it is in dem…
> What if a big part of solving the pipeline problem is simply for companies to demand more diverse candidates because leadership finally start to recognize the research that suggests that diverse teams outperform homogeneous teams on many metrics?
Last I read, the Economist said there is an advantage to diversity when attempting to be creative, but in other scenarios the advantage goes to the homogeneous team.
https://www.economist.com/news/business/21692865-making-most...
I think it was that article I read, can't tell because I'm over my article limit.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#966This feels like the blue and black (white and gold) dress. It boggles my mind that people don't see the fundamental and toxic misogyny in this 'manifesto'. Please have a woman you care about in your life, preferably one in tech, read this and then ask their opinion of the piece. The "treat people as individuals, not as just another member of their group" sentiment of the author is fine except that we have hundreds of…
You're eloquent, but I'm sorry - you lose me at "institutionalized racism". That's a very testable thing: find the policy, directive, or law that is racist and cite it. Don't throw out the term as a kind of pervasive but subtly intangible miasm that we have to expunge from our midst like Satan's influence on 16th century New England.
It's also your responsibility to educate yourself. It's not like institutionalized racism is some "subtly intangible miasm". For an example, read up on African Americans and the G.I. Bill after WW2. Heck, the Civil Rights Bill was passed only a little over 50 years ago, after centuries of marginalization. If you want a more modern example, read up on studies of racism in the justice and education systems.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#967Surprised to see no mention of John Haidt and the "illiberal left" thus far.
Tell me more about this? I've had Haidt recommended to me (to read) multiple times, and I've been reluctant so far.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#9681) why is it a moral imperative to have 50/50 gender balance in a company? 2) why is it wrong to have a non-diverse company?
Google (or any other company I can think of) is not trying to have 50/50 gender balance. They are trying to have the same percentage split as the pool of applicants, which I think is fine. Looks like lot of people do not understand how gender diversity programs work or their purpose and hence all this misunderstanding.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#969Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If gender-based diversity programs are responsible for qualified women getting jobs that they otherwise wouldn't have gotten due to bias, then the lack of that program means those women wouldn't have gotten those jobs. This is a double sword thing. With the program you might hire more qualified women, but also more less qualified women and you might prevent of hiring more qualified men. Because you have to hire wom…
>If I were I woman (or belong to minority) I would prefer to be being hired without any diversity program. Only someone who is not a woman or not from a minority could say this. People tend to dismiss other peoples problem or minimize them, even when those people are telling they are hurting.
>Only someone who is not a woman or not from a minority could say this.
This statement is just way out there. I almost want to say the opposite to you.
I've known an African American PhD who says this. After his defense he had trouble finding a job. My company was ramping up hiring of minorities. He sent me his resume, and I asked him if I should enter his minority status in the system as it would prioritize his application. He said "No way."
He didn't get a decent job for a whole year after that. He doesn't regret it at all.
Re: Google Fires Employee Behind Controversial Diversity Memo
#970This individual apparently has a biology PhD from Harvard, but only two published papers. How common is this in biology? Seems very low compared to computer science.
He doesn't have a PhD. https://twitter.com/nitashatiku/status/894939560391565317. He was in the PhD program at Harvard for two years, and published nothing during that time.