Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

qz.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 497 posts

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#271

Post by bluGill »

herbst wrote: post #230
yxhuvud wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that is a problem with debit cards you should go get a better bank.

If you think this. Or the dozen times credit card data have been stolen in mass from websites aren't a serious issue you should read more news. I know I can charge back. But then I need to waste time to check all the charges and go through the charge back process. Also depit cards. At least in Europe. AFAIK don't offer a easy charge back at all

The laws on liability are very different in Europe and the US. In the US a stolen card is the bank's problem. In Europe it is the consumer's problem. This difference in laws is critical to this discussion, both sides are saying "you are wrong" when in fact both sides are right in their respective country and wrong in the other.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#272

Post by germanier »

discombobulate wrote: post #108
killercup wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I learned about the Weimarer Republik and it's economic issues in school in Germany. (I guess it was in 8th or 9th grade and that history class was mandatory.)

Looks like the Bitcoin laws are v favourable in DE. You can pay taxes in BTC(!) & BTC is a unit of account[0]. That makes sense if the memory of WR hyperinflation is written to the citizens' mind. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country...

You can't pay your taxes with Bitcoin (the Wikipedia author probably means something else?). You can't even pay most tax in cash even if you wanted to. Bank transfer in EUR is the only way.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#273

Post by nonsince »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81
mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

I recently moved from the Netherlands, where card is overwhelmingly favoured (at least in Amsterdam and Den Haag, I've never been somewhere that doesn't take card and some places refuse cash) to Berlin, which I think is even more pro-cash than most of Germany. Cash is way slower, and I've now got a couple euros' worth of coppers that are utterly worthless because no-one's going to bother counting them out. In the Netherlands the smallest denomination of cents is 5, but you could live for years there and not know, because almost everywhere takes card (and most machines support contactless).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#274

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

hocuspocus wrote: post #136
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As someone who lived two years in Germany a) That's a good joke. From faster to slower: NFC > PIN > signature > cash. b) You should look into the real cost of dealing with cash. EC is stupidly cheap since it's basically the cost of a SEPA direct payment (we're talking 1-2 cents per transaction). Debit card payments can also be pretty cheap in Europe. All those annoying restaurants and small shops that take only cash…

As someone who lived 40+ years in Germany ...

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#275

Post by biggerbistro »

gt565k wrote: post #50
thinkMOAR wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whats the fine print for your 1-3% cash back? wondered about that. Will you be sharing (allowing the card issuer) to sell meta data of your transactions?

You have a good point. I just got the costco citi credit card, and there was a small pamphlet included with the privacy information and what data is shared. Basically something like 8 line items for different kinds of data, 5/8 were required, the other 3 I had the option to opt-out, but they were automatically opt-in. At the end of the day, the benefits far outweigh the meta-data that is shared. Ok, sure you can see…

>not take 4% back on gas and 3% on restaurants yes? This is the same argument for using stuff like gmail. What, are you really gonna pay 20 bucks a year for email? I'm sure everyone's price to sell away their privacy is different but I'm a little off-put by how cheaply people are selling themselves these days. I hope it never becomes a problem (e.g. Stasi) but if it does I won't be crying for those people whose lives will be ruined.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#276

Post by calvinbhai »

What if Germany also has a round of Demonetization, similar to what India did in November 2016? Would the Germans continue to use cash to pay for anything after that?

I'm a fan of the Indian demonetization experiment, and I believe it has yielded positive results, at least in terms of being able to use your credit/debit cards almost anywhere.

If such a drastic measure is taken, then there'll be some aversion to cash, which will, in turn, move more people to non-cash modes of payment.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#277

Post by pmoriarty »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #265
pmoriarty wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that, but you also have to either carry your small coins around so you can use them up or you have to collect them and then redeem them all for bills or deposit them. This is a royal pain. I have so much change lying around the house that I haven't bothered to count and redeem. On the other hand, if you use credit cards, you would ideally be keeping receipts and then reconciling them to the statements you ge…

Every evening I put all spare change from my trouser pockets into a large glass jar next to the door. Once a year I reedem the money and have a really nice dinner.

Do you count the change before you redeem it? That is a huge time-suck for me, and I hate doing it.

Also, I feel really bad for the cashiers that are unlucky enough to have all that change dumped on them and are forced to count it all. Some banks have change counting machines, but surprisingly, many don't and the change is still counted by hand while you wait.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#278

Post by egeozcan »

stevesimmons wrote: post #253
egeozcan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit card is pretty equivalent to cash, though. When my friends and family from my hometown (Istanbul) visit me the first time, they are usually quite shocked that most shops here do not accept credit cards at all. In Turkey (a place I call micro-USA), many credit cards automatically divide the payments for some transactions to 3+ months, whereas here in Germany, there's always some bureaucracy involved, even if you…

The Turkish payment system really is an eye-opener for its sophistication. I used to work in credit cards and did a study tour to Istanbul in 2004 to see it first hand and talk to both merchants and the issuing banks. One big difference in Turkey is many shops had 5 or more card terminals, each in the colour of the issuing bank. Banks competed for both merchants and consumers by offering value-added features unique t…

They are still popular, and they are doing everything they can to reduce your ability to compare their offerings: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=tr&tl=en&js=y&prev...

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#279

Post by rubicon33 »

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #261
codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - I get a 10 EUR note from my trouser pocket - Cashier gives back money - I put money in trouser pocket - Done - Home: I put all spare money in a large glass jar Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You swipe card/insert in chip reader - You insert PIN number - You shield your PIN entrie from the people next to…

Credit cards don't require a PIN. Just get a credit card and pay it off every month. Free points!

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#280

Post by _Codemonkeyism »

killerpopiller wrote: post #176
hocuspocus wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who lived two years in Germany a) That's a good joke. From faster to slower: NFC > PIN > signature > cash. b) You should look into the real cost of dealing with cash. EC is stupidly cheap since it's basically the cost of a SEPA direct payment (we're talking 1-2 cents per transaction). Debit card payments can also be pretty cheap in Europe. All those annoying restaurants and small shops that take only cash…

I also suspect tax avoidance rather than transaction costs

Margins in many businesses are razor thin in Germany. Which is the reason Walmart and others stopped doing business in Germany. For many businesses 1-2% transaction cost is the difference between success and failure.

But yes tax avoidance is a huge problem in restaurants in Germany.

Post reply on HN