Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#171

Post by antouank » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:34 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #131

codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking…

Say hello to contactless https://www.visa.co.uk/products/visa-contactless/

Standard on most bank cards in the UK. No pin or anything. Tap it on the machine and you go. Takes 2 seconds at most.

Still, I do hold cash sometimes, you do need it in some cases.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#172

Post by PythonicAlpha » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:34 PM UTC

I (as others) think, that the stability reason is bogus. The things that where mentioned, happened 100 years ago. To long for most Germans to remember.

Maybe we are just more traditional thinking, than others.

Some good alternative reasons where given here.

In my experience, the cash workflow is faster in most situations than our CC workflow (maybe in other countries it is the opposite).

I want to give another reason, that is one of mine:

With money in my pocket, I have my expenses under better control. When the money is out before the month ends, I immediately see it.

With CC, it is not so.

And as we Germans are so economical, many of us like to have control over our expenses.

I also think, that there is a good evidence, that it actually works.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#173

Post by cknight » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:35 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #131

codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

In a German supermarket there are two notable differences: People pay with rounded bills most of the time, cashiers are fast at returning change (amounts are usually a single cent below the full euro for each item, so change isn't a big problem). The credit card workflow requires you to sign as well (or alternatively sometimes your pin if it's a debit card). Also, no swiping, only chip readers. So in essence, taking…

I can't even count the number of times I've been stuck behind someone in Rewe, waiting while they scrounge around in their purse or wallet for those final few cents. It is far from uncommon, at least where I live.

You're right about the cashiers though, they're super quick.

The good thing about the card is that you hand it over, and while the reader is talking to the bank you have a few seconds to continue packing your bags. I've simply found it flows better with card every time, as long as you remember which checkout has the dicky card reader that needs 3 tries.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#174

Post by gruturo » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:35 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #96

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

Are contactless terminals widespread in Germany? On a short trip last month, I surprised a couple of merchants by paying contactlessly with my foreign (EU) card. That's almost always faster than paying by cash, since there's no need to count the money or make change. The exception is when the cost is €20, and I can hand over a single note.

> Are contactless terminals widespread in Germany?

They are absolutely everywhere since last year more or less, but everybody (esp. cashiers) is always dumbfounded when I use it and it works. Also some of them try to handle your card for you "to insert it in the right way" and since my German is still rather basic I then have to weigh the potential time waste of explaining it's a contactless card with the extra 4-5 seconds for the chip transaction. But I guess that part doesn't really apply to locals.

("kontaktlose karte, nicht einstecken" but they don't listen the first couple times)

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#175

Post by codegeek » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:36 PM UTC

hobo_mark wrote: post #164

pantalaimon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Credit card workflow: > - Cashier tells you the total amount > - You look in your wallet/purse > - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > - Done You forgot the part where you have to enter you PIN and wait for the transaction to go through, or sign the receipt.

That's because, as I was shocked to find out, most POS in the US don't ask for a PIN! Convenient indeed, until someone gets ahold of your card.

Almost all credit cards are 0 liability to the consumer. Even if someone gets a hold of my card, I can call the credit card company and get all fraud charges reversed. That's why I personally always use a credit card EVERYWHERE. I hate cash and I hate to wait in lines. But sure, they have an electronic trail on me which frankly, I don't care too much about. If the Govt wants to get you, they WILL get you.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#176

Post by killerpopiller » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:37 PM UTC

hocuspocus wrote: post #136

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As someone who lived two years in Germany a) That's a good joke. From faster to slower: NFC > PIN > signature > cash. b) You should look into the real cost of dealing with cash. EC is stupidly cheap since it's basically the cost of a SEPA direct payment (we're talking 1-2 cents per transaction). Debit card payments can also be pretty cheap in Europe. All those annoying restaurants and small shops that take only cash…

I also suspect tax avoidance rather than transaction costs

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#177

Post by jasonkostempski » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

Parting with your money shouldn't be easy :)

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#178

Post by Symbiote » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

wongarsu wrote: post #138

fleg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless payments don't need PIN (up to some small but comfortable amount) and go through almost instantly.

But Germans don't trust contactless payment because in theory anybody could hold a card reader against your wallet while you're innocently waiting in some line.

And just what would they do with it?

That seems an easy way to get your merchant account cancelled very, very quickly.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#179

Post by planteen » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

hobo_mark wrote: post #164

pantalaimon wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Credit card workflow: > - Cashier tells you the total amount > - You look in your wallet/purse > - You swipe card/insert in chip reader > - Done You forgot the part where you have to enter you PIN and wait for the transaction to go through, or sign the receipt.

That's because, as I was shocked to find out, most POS in the US don't ask for a PIN! Convenient indeed, until someone gets ahold of your card.

Americans are used to entering PINs on debit cards, but not credit. However, in my recent experience in Iceland & Germany, most POS don't ask for a PIN on credit transactions either. The only time I was asked for a PIN on a credit card was at a gas pump.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#180

Post by akx » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

Tharkun wrote: post #162

There's a lot of love for contactless payments in this thread. I would have thought the security-conscious HN audience would dislike them? Has something improved wrt security?

FWIW, for my NFC debit card the maximum for a single transaction is 25 EUR, and the card will require a PIN occasionally anyway (I assume the more often NFC is used).